Ep15: Boardrooms to BioDiversity: Building with Purpose ft. Amit Banka

The value creation aspect was from day one. If I don't do these kind of things, how will stock market behave? Power of asking right questions in the room in the most softer way. >> Right. >> Right. Is the biggest challenge today. I've been exposed to some of the loan documents at that time which didn't even have the borrower signature. They were 100 plus cr loans. >> Was that a natural migration from there to venture capital and investments? From day one >> finance was never the core

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lets you split, combine, or co-ay with friends and family in real time. Whether it's shopping, gifting, or travel bookings, now everyone can chip in with ease. Check out smarter with super checkout. Hey everyone, welcome to yet another episode of the innovators and disruptors podcast. And today for this conversation, I'm here in Mumbai as you can see from the cutting chai. So welcome to all the consumers, all the audience members who are who are going to listen to this amazing conversation. By the way, today's conversation is

going to focus on some very interesting facets of information, wisdom, gan, whatever you want to call it. uh we're going to talk to a person who's an entrepreneur, who's an investor, who's a media executive and he's going to give us a lot of insights from boardrooms to biodiversity, right? So, it's very very diverse conversation that we're going to have today. He's been a storyteller. He's he's been a finance executive. He has done so much different things across the genre of different areas and so I'm super happy to have Amed Banka on the show with us today. Thank you so much

Ahmed for taking our time. >> Thank you so much AB for your cutting chai session. uh really love it and uh I'm I'm hoping to get into a series of conversation with you today and see whatever best we can call out of it. >> No no I think we'll have a very short period of time to you know to try and grab so much of information so much of wisdom from you. So I'm going to try and you know at least some of my intrigue that I have uh you know after after going through my own research about you I'm going to try and tap into that at least for the camera some of which I'm

going to satiate later as well with my questions for you. >> Let's try our level best. >> All right thank you so much Amit. uh you know Amit uh before we go a lot into the impact creation that you have done right I wanted to actually dive deeper into your early life you know your upbringing certain key pivotal moments you know because I think most leaders who they are today they they're not born leaders right they evolve into leaders their experiences mold them into who they are and that's exactly why I wanted to talk to you a little bit about you know what

your early life what your upbringing was like where were you born how did you grow up >> uh thank you u I think uh you mentioned a very important point that our uh today is defined by what we were and what our experience has been uh in our previous part of our lives. And I think uh for me I think more likely than not I give that entire credit to uh the way I was brought up or probably the circumstances in which I was brought up or the kind of life that I had seen at that point in time. when I started earning or probably fending for the family or probably

working and taking life experiences a little earlier in my life >> uh when I was 10 years 11 years old as uh unfortunately I lost my father very early and uh post that you know suddenly life changes you start seeing life very differently you start seeing circumstances and environment very differently and the people you interact with right how they behave how your family internally and environment is being created around that. uh considering the fact that I come from a very small town uh called Nagda which is known largely for uh its uh grassim

industries that it has for uh for I think 100 years now and uh we small town guy born and brought up in a colony of grassim uh schooled exactly over there uh school was just stone throw from our places and then uh lived in a very natural environment where Chumbel river was 500 100 meters away from our house and every time I mean our natural way of learning swimming was actually in Chumbul and not in >> the swimming pool. Wow. >> Right. So I think uh that's a very different environment altogether which very difficult in a pure city life

>> and being in Bombay I can actually relate to that aspect very well now. uh but I think coming from a small town and in these in this kind of environment u trying to figure out what next every day >> right it's not the best situation at that point in time but I think when I look back now I think most of my u things that I could do >> right >> now was a massive grounding has happened at that point in time >> makes a lot >> so uh so whether it is going into a consumer mindset said

>> right understanding how exactly at that point in time synthol and uh was launched with God >> and then over a period of time how PNG and Godidge came together in India and then they split and this has all happened in front of my eyes right >> right although I didn't understand too much at that point in time I used to be in the market because our uncles had a family business and which used to have lot of distribution on consumer side >> and uh when I used to look back over there. It was very intriguing how exactly people even are buying uh uh

products and taking a buying decision, >> right? >> How aunties used to come to the place and then talk about certain things because there was a kirana store and and we used to be >> really proud of being part of that entire journey over there at that time. And when I used to understand what is going on in the consumer economy today, >> I have no qualms in saying that my uncle was so foresighted at that point in time. He implemented lot of things at that point in time. >> Mhm.

>> And I'm talking about almost 40 years back now. >> Right. And he home delivery >> was something that he actually initiated >> because he figured out the downtime of the servants >> over there at that time who were there at the shop floor and he figured out that more and more people coming to the store they ask more questions. >> So he said I don't want these questions and the moment phones came >> he used to just take the orders on the phone >> and get it delivered.

>> Brilliant. >> Right. No questions, no bargaining, nothing. >> Right? So, a lot of these things and today also you're paying convenience fee. >> Your price is always a little higher and things are getting delivered to you. >> Sure. >> Right. But you don't realize because it's about convenience. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> So all these things you know they are all ingrained in the thought process at

that point in time probably um when everyone else is playing you feel that oh is this the right utilization of your time? But when I look back, >> I think most of my grounding is coming from there. >> So all the entire business mindset to understanding what exactly goes out in the market, what works, what doesn't work, what kind of questions come, how do you resolve them, >> how does the conflict resolution happen in a regular basis, how are you solution oriented >> rather than you can't crib about it when

you are dealing with five customers at the same time, right? >> There's no time to crib. >> Yeah. >> You have to then and there give a solution. >> That's fantastic. >> Right. So most of these things I've got ingrained in me and I have not realized it. When someone else tell me I didn't ask you for solution I want you to just listen to my rant. >> I said oh yeah fine I've never done that. >> So now you know because someone is

talking to me about the problem and I'm giving you don't worry let's do this 1 2 3. I said wait >> I'm not asking for solution. I said but that is how my upbringing has been >> right >> that I don't have time but let's find a solution right now. So you know this uh this something is uh very very close to my heart now >> and I when I go back and reminisce I think it came in a harder way but actually this is how I have been built. >> That's amazing. >> Yeah. Yeah, in fact uh some very

interesting pointers that you just shared, right? One is uh time value over money and money value over time, right? And we have seen the transition over the last 20 30 40 years gradually going from uh you know being very costconcious and still I think we believe that you know majority of the people in the country are very costconscious right so we're talking about serving to the true India then true bat then you're talking about costconcious impact on the consumer journey and then there are people in the tier one cities who are so much more conscious about uh you know convenience

over time right they they want to you know pay a premium for everything possible as long as the time can be saved from not doing certain chores right and the daily activities but the pointer that you suggested was also very intriguing because my perception is now shaky because I perceive that this is a lot more in tier 1's but you're talking about you know >> tier four >> tier four and about 40 years ago 30 40 years ago right so so fundamentally human nature is such that you know we are looking for convenience in every way

possible we're still you probably cost conscious as a market as a demography but we're still looking for that extra value creation extra convenience >> always and I also and just to add to that thought process I've seen a Bombay >> in every city >> so there's a part of in and there is a village in every Bombay >> right so there's always set of people who behave very differently in a particular lo locality >> and there are certain people who will be very very bat and there'll be certain people who are always be India

>> right so you have to define at that point in time that who are you catering to >> true >> on Instagram it's same analogy on Instagram there is everyone >> you create your cohorts by going and this is where the performance marketing comes true >> that you always figure out your audience >> and say who you want to deal deal with >> true >> right a luxury is always going to be uh targeted towards a luxury consumer >> and suddenly the entire performance will

shift towards the bhat separately right so and same thing is happening with the content creation also if you look at all the content that is being created >> it's not that UPVR is not consuming something that is being released in Bombay there's a UPVR in Bombay >> is what I always say >> true >> right so that's >> in fact uh very interestingly after Z you're an amazing stint at Z then you went you know from such a large organization to a company which was in your you know younger journey younger

part of the journey right UTV and over the years you grew into a senior vice president and then beyond the UTV corporate function as well into junior laser and others and I'll get to that as well but what got you to move from Z to UTV at that point in time >> so uh between Z and UTV I had couple of adventures >> okay >> so u so I after I quit Z to start an asset reconstru construction company >> H >> which happened in 2003 May >> okay

>> and uh hindsight it was a stupid move from my side because I didn't gauge the market well at that time we were working with some of the eminent people in the country uh and trying to figure out if we can create a right business model >> around asset reconstruction and surfacey act had just come in >> okay >> and uh that's now the NCT uh thing that's coming out. It's a very very refined form of uh the bankruptcy act in some manner >> and at that point time people were just cleaning up books and that's why asset

reconstruction companies and I have no qualms in saying that on record right now >> right that it was not done in the true sense >> okay >> I've been exposed to some of the loan documents at that time which didn't even have the borrower signature >> and they were 100 plus cr loans >> right and when I got more into the system, I realized that it cannot be uh reconstructed. >> It can just be transferred from one person to the other who's able to take

the risk and no one else but the banks were there to >> take the risk >> borrow and take the risk themselves by just transferring it from one balance sheet to the other. >> Got it. >> There was that was exactly what was happening at that time. >> And what we started getting were recovery cases. H >> and I don't think looking at me anyone would have ever given me any money back >> right or for that you need different kind of people

>> and I realized it very soon and I said that's not working out for me and I was really running low on my finances in a big way at that time because uh because of our background I was constantly repaying some past loans >> which were not even known to me earlier. >> Okay. So all that happened and then I had to take up a job immediately which happened with Salora International with Mr. Sushil Javka and uh that was I think a very interesting turning point in my life when I met with a gentleman who was very selfless. >> Okay.

>> Right. And there was something that I could have a first time ever have a conversation without him uh being biased that hey Amit is working with me and if I give him such advice >> he might leave right but he was very candid in his approach. U I can say a bit of fatherly figure thought process as well. Uh his son used to be working with me in some form the other and a couple of other ventures that we were planning to do. uh family got very close to me as well right and I I mean that's a different

story altogether >> but more and more I was working with him I was realizing one my potential and how I'm not doing justice to my own potential and skills the way I was working with Z and then uh arc and then now this and then I was also candid in talking to him about what I really want to do right and one fine day I realized after a few months that hey this is not going well. So it was May of 2003 when I quit Z to >> I think October November of 2004. >> Okay. >> Right. And uh that's when I was just

chatting with someone and one opportunity came in which was UTV >> media to media >> was a little easier conversation for me because I know the depth in which media would operate. >> Right. The only thing I didn't know about the depth in which I could operate in UTV >> coming from Z I mean we had always looked at UTV as a uh a content provider. >> Okay. >> Because that is what I mean there was a period where we had massive number of

shows coming in from UTV. So Ronnie was a celebrated figure. >> Right. >> Right. No doubt about it. Everyone in the world knew him because we have all lived on Mathematic show. >> Right. So everyone knew Ronnie. Uh we I mean because of my media background I knew Ronnie a little bit more and then the entire uh jing bang over there. So I interviewed got through >> uh my first assignment was IPO. >> Right. >> Right. And I that changed the whole thought process again because again I

got back into mainstream >> and then one thing led to the other. I was heading corporate finance. I had a good team. we did uh that IPO was at that time Sensex was 5,000 Sensex was 5,000 which is now 82,000 >> and I still believe in Sensex so NSC doesn't come into my radar too much though I trade on NSE >> uh so uh so that happened and at that 5,000 when the markets were really bad in 20045 >> we got it uh subscribed by 20 uh by 25 times. >> Oh wow. So that was one turning point in

March of March 17, 2005 which was the IPO and then I think we raised some money very negligible amount of money but one very interesting decision that we took was sale of Hungama TV >> which was so close to Ronnie Serena everyone else and I realized that that sale really turned the fortunes of what we wanted to build. >> Wow. And in my head when I look back right um I think my grounding of Z of understanding the consumer and the way things move in that because UTV ultimately from a perception perspective

was a B2B company >> right >> so from moving from B2B to B2C >> was supposed to be a journey >> right >> Ronnie was very very passionate about movies and I could see that you know with every movie decision >> though we were not real real producer we were not um looked at as a producer in the market, right? Because we were largely uh doing our last movie at that time was we were we had done a couple of other distribution of the movies whether it

was Lagan, whether it was Chel Chalt and all of that with Char. >> But the moment we got some money >> uh we sold Hungama TV, we got Disney on board. >> Right. >> Right. And that Disney and Hangama conversation is also another story altogether. >> Right? >> Uh and when all this happened, we suddenly had some money >> for a company which was largely in debt most of the time and it was listed >> and there was very negligible dilution

that happened at that time and suddenly we had 220 crores in the bank. >> And then that probably we used that to rewrite the whole story. >> Wow. >> Right. Within 2 and 1/2 years, 3 years time >> we were the largest studio in the country. >> Wow. >> From nothing. >> Literally. >> That's amazing. That's huge. >> Whether it was Rangasanti to Jodar to XYZ and UTV became the name

>> which probably I had seen people spending 20 30 years to build that particular name >> and hats off to Ronnie the way he took calls and the way drove it to a certain level of maturity. the kind of teams we hired, >> right? >> Experimented with people, >> uh, experimented with businesses, used some part of that money to do in 200, the moment we got this money in 2006, >> we we immediately pushed the plan to list a movie company because by that time we already had a slate of around 15

17 movies >> in under development. We listed movie company in London Stock Exchange. >> Raised lot of money from there. Mhm. >> Then uh then we invested some part of money in gaming businesses because that was another big thing that was going on in the world >> that how do you go closer to the consumer with another content piece. >> Gaming was one part of it. We acquired India games. We acquired another company in London >> and uh another MMO company in uh in uh

US in True Games and with all these three acquisitions we were the largest gaming company in the country and we were making games for virtually all platforms available in the world. >> Brilliant. >> Right. And I used to head that business as well. So outside of so that's why outside of corporate finance I used to look at exhibition I used to look at gaming I used to look at digital. So there's a lot that happened but ultimately it was all about how to create value in the company >> and in spite of whatever happened

>> our stock price never went uh down the listed price >> and it was never badgered just because we have taken this decision or that decision. We were constantly growing from almost 70 to 80 cr 90 cr company >> in six years we were around 1100 crores company. >> Wow. In terms of revenue, lot of investment happened, lot of stuff happened, lot of interesting stuff really were thrown at the market, experimented, went back onto the drawing drawing board and then figured out what more to be done and uh we raised money,

we invested, we just created I mean there was some movement at that time, >> right? And I realized that that 6, seven years of being in UTV 2004, November, December to 2011, 10, 11, >> no, not a single day was not even eventful. Every day was so much >> so much fun, so much >> uh learning across the board. >> Uh it UTV became an ecosystem. >> You can't avoid it, >> right? If you are in media in a short period of time, you just can't avoid that particular ecosystem. And Ronnie led it so beautifully.

>> Wow. >> Right. So I think that was I mean with him being so closely involved in everything that was going on and also driving certain things uh in a manner they actually came out right from listing to complete cycle of D-listing. >> Right. We were completely delisted when I quit. Right? Because that was the last assignment effectively. >> So listing was the first assignment. The big listing was the last one. >> So that was a full cycle and value creation to an extent >> that we listed at 230 cr market cap

>> and we exited at 6,400 crores enterprise value. >> So if you look at that entire journey, I think these are the journeys to be always cherished. Remember, >> right? There were a lot of ups and downs. >> I was about to ask you that. >> Yeah. Lots of ups and downs. And it's natural. >> There's nothing there's nothing which is without a speedb breaker. >> Right. >> Right. And if we believe in that that my life is like there are people who had no

speed breakers >> but they were lucky. >> Okay. >> Right. I was lucky that I had speed breakers. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Right. Because I think every speedbreaker taught you something >> and that probably I will not make the same mistake again >> and I believe in experimentation and none of these things are cast in stone that something will work uh and things are there which will not work right but do you really stop living because of

that or probably take that step again I would still take that step again probably I do it that particular thing a little differently >> right wow >> right so I think That's by and large been the journey and I'm like the way I cherish my moments at Z equally or more probably >> at UTV. I mean unbelievable >> folks who are listening to this right now. This is a master class by Ahmed, right? This is so fantastic. I mean, I'm so inspired right now listening to some of these points that you've just shared.

It's so amazing and how uh how humble and and such so much humility you're talking about. The fact that you've seen the whole listing, D-listing, the three major acquisitions making it the the largest gaming company in the country and so on and so forth. And I think that diversified into Sades Foundation, so many other things as well. This is fantastic. This is so there's so much of impact that's been created there. Thank you so much Amit for sharing this because this is so beautiful. I mean I love the love the perspectives that you just shared.

>> Uh can you share some anecdotes or differences in culture what you saw in the Z and SL group versus what you saw in UTV and then Disney as well? >> U well very different organizations culturally. uh some things obviously are uh difficult to explain. >> Mhm. >> Right. Or put it on record in some manner. But all I would like to say is that uh with SE the decision making was like extremely

extremely bold, right? He has actually gone ahead and made commitments and which have worked so well for the organization. Some obviously don't right but he's never feared uh an experiment in any manner. Go >> right >> and that vision really is where Z could actually take those steps which otherwise lot of people were just thinking and he implemented it. Right. >> I think that really helped me understand how decision-m really happens.

>> That also has inspired me to think about those decisions very differently. And I that one time I used to think oh why it's happening and how he could take that kind of a decision like this >> right >> but later I realized the kind of calculations he would be doing at that time >> right >> because that's what you do. I'm I'm known to take certain fast decisions as well, not of that nature. >> But there is always a different kind of mental math that you do,

>> right? >> Right. Uh your ability to and that math is not about just the numbers. >> Your ability to execute that vision, >> right, >> is also a mental math. >> Makes sense, >> right? The kind of people that you're surrounded with, whether out of those 10 people, who are those two people that you'll pick to execute that experiment? M >> right whether it was lottery whether it was DTH whether it was this and he used to pick and say hey go and execute

>> right and that picking was never biased in certain way >> right >> and I think I could see that b the the the inclination towards making a business >> very differently right >> makes sense >> uh cut to uh in UTV >> Ronnie was very prone to experiments and ideas. >> H >> right. What worked is that his mental math capability and his learning >> is far far more superior than anyone

else. >> Wow. >> He learns like this. >> Right. >> I mean I have never seen someone learning so fast. >> Right. And the amount of number of different diverse businesses that he has been exposed to >> that he can have a conversation with you on everything. Right. >> Right. And that helps you think differently and then match up with that pace

>> is the biggest challenge. >> Right. >> Right. Over there you don't get time to think too much. >> In Z you don't get time to think too much. H >> but with UTV I got time to think >> also do a something better than what we had discussed earlier >> and and there is a there is an opportunity for you to think >> there is an opportunity for you to collaborate and contribute and question if there is a decision happening in certain way and alter the path

>> right with proper collaboration and discussion with >> makes sense >> right and I felt I was not so so close at that point in time with uh SC but I felt that probably that was missing in that particular culture >> right >> however these are two distinct thought processes >> right but I think both coexists >> right there is no there's no one success mantra >> right >> some things work for someone some things

work some other thing may work for someone else It's your it's the way you deal with that situation at that point in time. >> Makes sense. >> Right. So I think culturally that's how the organization get developed. >> Right. Again asking the right question >> in a particular room also comes very interestingly from uh my stint with Ronnie >> because there was a room to ask the right question, >> right? >> There was a room to collaborate. M

>> there was a room to uh figure out if we are not doing well go back >> figure out what is the better way to do it and then make those alterations in some manner >> makes a lot of sense >> right so I think these are the two major cultural differences in some cases I would say that yes I am very sure that this happened in some cases I'm saying that yes I was part of this and that's why I'm saying that this can happen >> makes a lot of sense thank you >> so I think that's and that's how organizations also get built Right.

>> Right. That's how you end up hiring people, >> right? >> Right. You hire people who have not just ability to execute but also add value >> right >> to whatever you're doing and they are doing better, >> right, >> than you because that's how I'm going to hire someone who is better than me in something. >> Makes sense, >> right? Otherwise, what's the point? >> True.

>> Right. >> The cultural >> and otherwise otherwise everyone will be similar to me and then I'm not I'm not learning anything every day. >> Makes sense. Right. So I always even now I tell people to hire people who are better than you in something. >> True. >> It could be as simple as that person is better in making decks. >> H >> right. It could be anything. >> Right. >> Right. There's something in someone

every time that you end up uh looking up to. >> Makes a lot of sense. >> And and that person if that person is not there at that time you miss that. >> That's fantastic. >> Otherwise otherwise everyone is redundant on day one. Right. >> True. True. Very true. That's a fantastic piece of advice for entrepreneurs and I'll come back to you uh for some more advice for entrepreneurs as well. But that that's so so good to understand uh how calculated risks are taken and how those

approaches really change the way companies uh are created, grown and then performing as well. Right. So thank you so much Amit for that perspective. Uh Amit but then your stint with UTV in in some senses came to an end but it continued into venture capital. Uh what I realized much later when I was doing my research is that you're also the managing director for uni laser. >> Yeah. >> Right. And then you went on to still continue to invest via equality uh guas uh collective consumer fund as well and a bunch of other channels too. Right. Uh

what was that transition like you know because even in UTV yes finance was at the core of it strategy was at the core of it. uh evaluation of various businesses came naturally to you and then was there a natural migration from there to venture capital and investments? >> Uh from day one >> finance was never the core. >> Got it. >> Right. Uh and I never let it made my core as well but because designations work in a certain way. So that finance tag always remained but out and out

every time it was all business >> right >> from the time that I really started breathing in this particular world >> but at the same time if you really see the transition it was not a very difficult transition for me >> because I was looking at every investment opportunities as if I'm running the business >> right you've done M&As as well you acquired >> I've done so I've done uh over a period of until UTV itself I would I was exposed to at least 10 M&As multiple

listings, >> right? >> Um running those companies, it's not like I was just hands off completely. Exactly. >> I was running those M&As as well in some manner. >> I was exposed to the uh domestic and international ways of operating. >> Right. >> I had dealt with teams not just in India but in Japan, in US, in UK >> and I had teams all over. We had we were running four studios at that one time, >> right?

>> Uh across these geographies. So exposure to the way domestic and international markets work >> from a uh team's perspective to the consumer perspective to the way Indian market uh storytelling works versus the way Japan would work because our game in Japan was built very differently as compared to the game game which was developed in in UK >> right >> so those nuances were very naturally ingrained in that entire ecosystem. So all those things really brought up very different business element to me right

and that was used because I always thought like an operator >> right exactly I was coming to that >> right I always thought that hey u if I was doing this particular business >> what would I have done differently >> makes sense >> to create value >> right >> I don't think about the second round that is to be done in this particular business I'm not a big believer of the second round and the third round and the fourth round and series A B C D >> right

>> I'm believer of that even if I'm not able to raise the second round >> can I save this company from mortality >> h >> where everyone in the VC space think that okay out of 10 two may work >> I feel that there's every company should have a right life cycle >> should be given enough rope to deal with it because not every company will become a billion dollar company but it can still survive and create value at 200 cr otherwise that's why the micro cap to small caps to midcaps and large cap apps are there right true

>> not everyone can become an HDFC bank >> exactly >> right but there is a bank there is a bank at 10,000 cr as well there's a bank at 20,000 and there are banks at five lakh crores as well right so I think there's a room for everything >> so can I just build those companies or probably work with those entrepreneurs to build that it's like 0 to 10 journey >> it's different than 10 to 100 journey >> right >> fortunately for me I have been part of those journeys from 0 to one, one to 10, 10 to 50 or 100,

>> right? >> And there is a different question to be asked in every room. >> Makes sense, >> right? You can't ask the same question that you're asking a startup >> and you're evaluating a probably a micro cap or a or a midcap. And that's why in Unila, we had a fullfledged strategy. Though we operated though technically we were a uh a family office, >> right? But we were operating exactly like a fund. >> Got it. >> That's the kind of teams that we got

together. And then it also happened with my inclination towards running businesses to to investments and Ronnie and we had chatted on that a lot. >> Right. >> Right. And when I was looking at what after UTV and this is what exactly it came about. We got together and said let's do this. >> Right. And that's why Unila ventures really >> uh happened. >> U investment to me is nothing but the way I would invest in the stock market. >> Makes a lot of sense.

>> Nothing different. So when I invested into micro cap companies in Uniler, I used to take exactly the same approach that I take with running a startup. Is the business making value? It's making money. >> It has potential. It has a good headroom. >> Right. >> Right. At what stage it will reach a glass ceiling >> and at what stage I should be exiting it. >> Got it. >> Right. And that I mean if you put these

four or five key parameters and your ability to understand where operationally this particular business can go wrong. >> I think if you've gone into those aspects by and large you're there. >> Right. >> Right. And what if if I change these two people from the team and push another skill set if that's going to change the dynamics of the way they are operating right now >> does it work right so this is how I think >> this is second order

>> and on exactly the first principles right >> this is the only way I can think >> makes sense >> right I can't think anything differently >> and and that's my problem and I accept it >> right no because there are I mean I I have got that feedback as well that you have a very fixated mind. I said yes I have probably because that is what I believe in >> right if I'm investing into a company and there are a lot of these things that we keep doing not everything goes in the

direction that you want to be >> right >> but you still can't challenge first principles >> right and I can't live on the second fund raise >> I have to make whatever I have to make and create value with the fund raise or the money that you have in bank today >> makes sense >> right if in case this money is not working for you and not going in the right direction and your decisions are constantly being challenged by the environment

>> then you'll have to alter now >> not waste time for the next fund raise >> for that alteration to happen >> so moving then to a transition to a very very large agency which is into talent management it's into pop culture media and so on and so forth right uh it's called the collective artist network what was that transition like you know did that change anything So um was not a transition really. >> Mhm. >> I have been so after Uniler I started my own consulting and then during that period I also started uh with my own

startup called uh V naturaturalists >> as part of a larger community- based creating ecosystems around uh outside driven communities and outdoor driven communities. So at that point in time while I was doing that obviously uh at when we naturalist started it was a very very long uh supposed to be a long journey >> while I was also doing consulting and then at that point in time I got introduced to collective and since I kn knew this particular industry well I've known the founders and the people who've been around for last so many years

>> and then one thing led to the other during the consulting and then uh I was brought on board to uh one restructure the company in the way it is today uh creating certain modes with developing businesses uh figuring out what next it's uh from a strategy perspective for the company and also uh contribute to some of the growth businesses that we were looking at from a overall growth standpoint >> while I was continuing to run V naturalists right so this is by by and the story about uh coming to collective artist network

>> which really u one there is a constant learning because you're dealing with very different uh set of people you're building brands you are working with some of the entrepreneurs which again uh comes naturally >> uh to me as well and then I uh also uh it helps me to figure out what's out there in the market and be updated in the most critical aspect of that is that you're creating something new every day >> and that's what I love generally >> right >> so one it's it's making you feel that there is always a there's always an

opportunity which is staring at you and then there are uh areas that you have to work upon on yourself right it just brings all the conviction with which you had worked on some of the past business businesses bringing it into fruition over Right. >> And what are those dos and don'ts that we were talking about comes really into play >> uh in this environment and considering the fact that we work with some of the largest talent in the in the country today u the perspective over here and your responsibility to make certain

things work is far more higher. >> So your sword hanging on the head is little different as compared to your own entrepreneurial journey. >> Sure. >> Right. Because over here you are also working and collaborating with different sets of people uh with different mindsets right so that journey is little different but yes the first principles don't change >> makes sense >> and uh it has also culminated into my journey to launch a fund which is collective consumer fund

>> one of its kind >> and again same first principles because all of us come from the operating background >> and the way it happened really also brought out a way of running businesses in some form because we were any which way as collective working with so many brands. So working with a brand and taking them to the next level came naturally to us being the largest mini media tech company. So from all that perspective it just worked out seamlessly in the aftar that I was running at V naturalist at that time

because a v naturalist was also it's completely bootstrapped >> and it always helped me at that point in time to continue running uh in a manner that I was running at that time. >> I've kept vationalist for the last because I'm very excited about getting into that as well. Now like I said right I wanted to talk to you would be b naturalist. You started this in 2019 with a very clear mission that your or vision rather to to bring together uh the the whole community of naturalists of nature lovers of different form factors together on a platform to give

them opportunities to work together right what inspired you to get this I know you you mentioned about your childhood where you're very close to nature was that the reason what what really got you there and say that let's let's build this out >> um I think whatever you do today it has to be some part of you in past >> right if that's the kind of passion that's coming out >> right >> right >> um in our days we were not exposed to uh a lot of travel right holidays used to

be either at your nani's place or >> some other uh relative's place in some form >> so at that point time you are always exposed to where you live >> and what you watch >> right >> but that was not a major grounding obviously My affinity towards water generally mountains and greenery was natural. It just I always loved it. >> Right. Monsoons were my favorite seasons because suddenly everything used to turn green, >> right?

>> But u it really caught up with me uh when I took bird photography >> a little bit more because that made me uh interact with the jungles a little bit more. M >> and more and more I uh started capturing birds >> right >> I started feeling what is actually destroying this entire ecosystem that we live in >> right >> there was never a thought that oh I have to save nature >> correct

>> right because I feel and with whatever uh learning and whatever studies I used to or or read about things you can't reverse the change that we've already started to get into right your temperature control to everything else it's all in our mind I don't think we can save nature nature doesn't need your input nature will figure out its own cause whatever you're trying to do is for your own selfish reason to save yourself >> right because this environment I can't take this temperature anymore >> right

>> and that's why I think about changing something at the climate level >> right uh otherwise air conditions we are all fine right our air conditions will be far more superior area that's it right you can't reverse the temperature change >> so from that standpoint I feel that uh there's one part of climate action that's going on people are ftting of climate change but there's a climate action is a clear actionable thought process so I don't believe in just talking about it I think we'll all have to do our bit to make certain things

happen in that direction >> the other thing was that when I interacted more and more with the community While my trips uh during my trips to the jungle, I realized that no one's talking the same language, >> right? Everyone was trying to uh protect their turf or trying to be uh very um you know dissociated with the world at large, >> right? Because they felt jungle is or that particular thing is their their ecosystem. And then it's like a typical civilian versus uh forces environment >> that forces believe that's that the

ecosystem and civilians don't exist per se or vice versa not vice versa actually >> but um >> but it's the similar environment there >> in jungles in people who work more on conservation >> right people who work on anything it could be an owl conservation to a vulture conservation or or a jungle conservation in some manner. Uh so air, water, soil, >> flora, fauna, >> these are the five elements that I generally think about as part of the ecosystem. And anyone who's working on

that uh part of the ecosystem is part of he's a naturalist, >> right? >> Anyone who loves nature >> is a naturalist. >> Correct? anyone who's working for these five elements or they are associated with it as a community as an individual as an organization are part of it and I realized that where do they really exist >> right so first and the foremost thing was how do I bring them together so that resources can be optimized >> a lot of money is going on where is this

going right there were a lot of we would have answered 500 questions before we started naturally and it was also a quick um you know a decision making at our end because I was constantly talking to people on ground and trying to understand exactly what kind of lives they are living. >> Makes sense. >> What do they do once they are not fit enough to be in jungles and being a naturalist because it requires a different level of fitness. You wake up at 3:00 a.m. in the morning get ready

for your stuff at 6 a.m. or whatever 5:00 a.m. >> Right? And then again your journey starts and it becomes very late by the time you're done with the guests. That was natural. Then then foresters and then people in the forestry department generally >> people who are more in the conservation space. There are very few people who understand their language. True >> money is not very easily available. So how do you really live? >> You're never at the corporate salary level. So all these questions were

constantly running in your mind. M >> so when I started looking at and talking to more and more people I realized the problems are the same >> right >> everyone is dealing with them differently right so bringing them all these people together was the first and the foremost thing and then I realized that what can bring them together is it the community platform answer is yes very clearly and I created that analogy in my mind that um before LinkedIn all of us were on Facebook

>> right >> and putting our profession background also on Facebook that here is where I work >> and when LinkedIn came in all the professionals who never wanted a social avar of theirs >> right >> out in the market they moved on LinkedIn >> took the professional avtar >> right >> each and every creative person was on LinkedIn >> right >> right also showcasing their work in

whichever form they could based on the restrictions or or the limitations of that particular platform when Behance came all the creative team moved to Behance >> because that was platform platform built for them >> right >> same analogy I started V naturaturalist as a platform >> let's move these people who don't find the other platforms created for them as a sense of belonging >> right >> and let them come over here to figure

out what really tools can make a difference in their lives >> true >> right and there are a lot of people and organizations who are running very low on tech >> they can't afford to invest in tech >> so some of those problems if I can share with them and make them shift to this particular tool so that they can actually not see as a social media >> right >> but they see as a day-to-day operational tool as well >> right

>> so I merged these two three things together >> and we as a team realized that that's a much better way to build a community >> because a community >> I don't want a social media platform >> right >> a community is an ecosystem which is built for a give and make >> right >> right uh everyone is like-minded everyone understands each other's pain everyone complements to what you are planning to do next in life if there is a project how I can pull these five

people from different walks of life create a project >> and then run with that particular project hey lovely amazing this is a what the impact that we've created and then off >> right >> 3 years later if I want to create a similar project for another level of funding that I've received D I can bring the same set of people by clicking a piece of button and then again I have the same community working with me for a different thing. Can this kind of a collaboration and

documentation and um and uh empowerment of sorts or enablement can happen on any other platform? Answer is absolutely not. M >> so with that as a thought process how to make them earn on the platform. How to make them collaborate on the platform. How to create project level and organization level tools. How to ensure that they can whatever content that they create can earn something for them rather than distributing it for free. Even if someone is paying uh 10 cents, no problem, >> right?

>> But are you still earning? Because for you to earn 10 cents on YouTube by putting a video over there, you'll take I don't know either years or you'll never do it because it requires certain volumes for the trickles to come to you. And in this particular community and space, that volume doesn't come. >> Right. >> Right. So from that standpoint, I realized that there is a lot of these things need to be done to empower this community so that whatever trickle in resources that are they are exposed to that can be utilized better.

>> Right? Today I also felt that lot of money is spent on administrative costs. >> Lot of people working but they technically have work of 2 three hours in a day. >> Why they have two hours? Because there's lot of operational administrative work which was typically being done by uh a 5,000 rupee kind of an expense >> which I can provide as a tool. Then I can actually tell them that hey you are built for a much larger role >> right >> rather than wasting your time in these smaller administrative jobs and then and

then all the project money that flows into that system >> get distributed unevenly towards more towards administrative cost and not on the ground activities >> actually >> right so these are few things which were observing uh which I was observing on a regular basis and it also came with strongly >> while I was running suades foundation >> h I in mind. Yeah. >> And one thing that I take pride in changing is a very corporate thought

process >> of running sades. So I was coming from a very different background from a pure corporate culture and when I went onto the ground and I realized the amount of money being spent with no ROI, no accountability, no transparency >> and I said wait >> this is not going to work. Then we started creating if a farmer is being funded for this particular season, how am I getting that money back from him not from a for-profit perspective but for ensuring that he's accountable for

the money that I'm giving him. >> True. >> He's also earning some money. We used to have livelihood interventions. >> Make him one. If I'm paying 50,000 to him for a season, >> he has to earn 1.5 and then we used to work with him how he can earn 1.5. >> Makes sense. keep 50,000 for his own requirements, 50,000 as saving for the next season and 50,000 back to me, >> right? >> So that I can help someone else with that 50. >> Makes sense,

>> right? This was the thought process that brought in because that accountability is critical. I don't want to just pray and pray and then say that at some point in time because that guy used to come back in the next season >> and ask me for more money. I said why? >> How does it work? And considering the fact that we were working on holistic living solutions so livelihood to water to healthare to education right and to organize the entire ecosystem in a way that there is a community buildup happening over there we used to do lot of shamdan

>> to ensure that our costs are uh this thing. So the entire community used to come together but they were not accountable for the actions that they were being done at that time. >> Right. >> Right. Toilets were not being used which we used to make with the government, help of the government but they were used at store room. Why? Because there was no water logical reasons. So what do you address first? Water or the toilet? >> So I think most of these things also brought uh lot of grounded uh you know realities and had thrown at me that

>> it's not just empowering them with a particular thing. You have to also reach that level where you can make the maximum utilization of that stuff. >> Right? So that's how the v natur started. >> It culminated into like I mean I'm proud of uh this that people came back with use cases. >> Can they run board meetings here? >> Right. I have an organization which actually runs their entire documentation board discussions and everything else in a very closed environment. Privacy setting is completely driven by

themselves. >> Nice. >> No one can see what they're doing inside. Right. Completely encrypted. >> Got it. >> Right. 48 chapters around the world, they are using this in some form or the other. >> Really? >> Right. UNICEF uses it in some form. We've got the tech approved by the UNICEF American offices and stuff like that. We had almost like 6 months of additional work that was required to

ensure that they are able to use it. then it got approved and then one of the community started working on it. So a lot of these things have also been our learnings that how does this environment work but to be honest with you I'm extremely unhappy >> about the ability of these people to comprehend the change that it can bring to the lives >> because they have been taught to not think >> unfortunately >> makes sense >> that's how the world works it's not only

India it's not only Africa it's about the world works like that but it's about >> exposure exposure to these >> learning. So now I'm coming to that part. So the biggest challenge that we are facing right now is not climate action, it's about awareness. >> Right? >> Climate action you can't reverse as I said in the beginning. >> Right. What you can do right now is just make people aware the way you you know in history and civics that you used to read earlier. >> Exactly.

>> Right. There were rights and duties. >> True. >> As a as a citizen, >> right? You have to know about your rights and duties or dos and don'ts with respect to environment, with respect to sustainability from childhood. >> True. >> That's how V naturalist is built. >> So we work a lot on sustainability solutions, awareness and learning solution, not education, >> awareness and learning, making green champions, >> green entrepreneurship, green childhood.

>> Right. >> Right. >> Some of these programs which has potential to change the way you live today. >> Right. Rather than ftting about it, what you are doing, >> what I am doing is more important. >> Makes sense, >> right? And what my household is doing is very important. What my parents are doing is what my kids are doing is more important. So it starts from us reducing consumption is your first step. >> Makes sense.

>> Right. How do you ensure that you get into a 0 km or as close by kilometer consumption? >> Right. >> Right. uh whether you are still eating a kiwi or avocado which is not grown around you. >> Yeah. >> As compared to eating what is locally grown, you're immediately reducing carbon footprint. >> True. >> Whether >> it's a gain to gate thing. People forget that.

>> Yeah. It is whether you can survive on locally produced stuff. Yes. That's how the world really uh was earlier. True. Right. True. I I didn't know ever in my life that we were exposed to those uh things which were coming from uh which were completely an import kind of a material >> packaged foods right again the same story. So I think these are small small things that could clearly redefine the way you are actually living and that is a straightaway implication on the carbon footprint also. >> True. So it is not about the car that

you're using or you start using EV. Both have its own uh pitfalls but at the same time are you doing enough to capture that particular carbon footprint within your own households. >> True. >> Whether it is recycling, whether it is use of water, >> whether it's use of food that you are consuming, >> right? Uh Dalcha economy will always give you more sustainability >> as compared to eating packaged food. I mean there's no brainer. >> H

>> that's straight. I mean as simple as that. >> But people do not understand that them taking shortcuts for convenience or for some something to do with the pallets right uh they are screwing up with the whole ecosystem that exposure >> that is what we are doing. Yeah, exactly. And it's so important in 2016 for the first time when I was interviewing for Target, the question that I was asked in my interview was about food security and I was literally taken aback because I was like what like what do you understand about food

security and I said I am not aware about what exactly are you asking about because I'd heard about you know you know cyber security but I had never heard of food security and I was an educated guy who lived outside of India as well for multiple years started from one of the top B schools in the country and I had no idea about what what food security even meant and cut to you know couple of years in target I realized the partnership with MIT in US in Boston or uh with L'Oreal and other things and I was a biotechnologist by the way. >> Wow.

>> Right. And I still did not know about food security at the top of my mind. Of course I knew the underlying concepts and I knew then I understood what the terminology meant but uh I did not know this and I was like if I did not know this being a biotechnologist who represented India at national level I mean I participated in multiple national level awards won four of them for my research right and I still did not know this so that means there's humongous lack of exposure awareness in the in the folks out there >> and uh that that is where V national has

become so important so critical in that shaping of the journey where people become exposed to this and they become much more conscious about this change that they have to bring it at an individual level as well. >> That's right. >> Thanks so much Amit for that perspective as well. Uh one last question right before I want to uh jump on another small segment of rapid fire very very new to our uh conversation style right but uh jokes apart I I think there's a lot of uh change that we are starting to see with we naturalist right couple of

quick questions around that one uh you know is CSR also a good revenue or stream for money to be dispersed into the ecosystem that you're building because I think uh India is probably the first country to have 2% mandated and I think corporates need to be aware of where you know where they're spending they should look at v naturalist as a place for them to you know push that money and so that that impact can be created at scale >> CSR is an important part of uh Indian ecosystem where government has mandated a percentage of the profits to be uh to

be spent for social uh needs and social uh work but at the same time one there is a lack of uh probably intent or understanding of where to spend when it comes to climate action >> and who to really back. The other thing is from a V naturaturalist standpoint, you can directly or indirectly participate in what V naturalist is doing to uh to figure out how your uh spend should make maximum impact on ground >> because one we promote transparency and accountability using our tools right so automatically the people or the NOS's or

the partners who are there who are best at implementing on ground uh uh on ground activities in some manner uh they can be monitored in a certain way >> and that's why we also promote a particular campaign which always says that adopt an NGO >> right so few people or an organization can come together and adopt an NGO and what does it mean that it also allows you to pay for their digital transformation digital transformation will bring in more accountability and transparency

more and more you see in a normal world also wherever you feel that hey my money is being used in the right way. That's why the charity starts >> right >> otherwise you'll you'll put your risk capital that on a signal or otherwise you'll just pay 10 rupees 15 rupees because you know I you will not be able to track that true >> but the moment I ask you one lakh rupees >> would you just give it like that you won't >> because you don't know what that money is going to be used for you will not

even give 1,000 rupees >> right exactly >> right why would you not give because you don't know where is that money going to be used for if I give you the whole trail >> that's A lot of platforms have started >> right >> right who give you the whole trail of the impact that is being created but that's in a particular uh genre or certain cohort >> but when it comes to climate action there's no one place which can give you that particular access and working with

that particular partner for lifelong >> right >> right and adopt them in some manner uh actually contribute to the buildup of that entire community >> in some manner because they are not that well paid and I've been talking about this in multiple forums now that the corporate world and the NGO and social world and the climate action world are two distinct environments. >> True. >> Right. Someone who's in the corporate world cannot see a career for himself or herself in that particular zone and vice

versa. >> One is lack of skill. you know there's a lack of intent and lack of enough remineration or career opportunity in that particular sense makes sense. So I think it's about people, it's about adoption of stuff, it's about bringing CSR and contributing in the right manner at the platform level. I think all these things really play an important role when it comes to CSR money being distributed in this ecosystem. >> No, makes a lotist. >> Got it. Uh you spoke about money trail or money provenence. Uh now coming to

carbon provenence I think uh my sense is that uh you know people are getting more conscious about the carbon footprint >> and there could be a time in the near future or maybe mid future where we say that you know every person is going to be socially rated by their carbon footprint >> very soon >> right so if that is one potential future that you know we can foresee what are other possible things that you know you can see as future trends that will start creating an impact on sustainability on nature and how will we naturally play a

part in that? uh I think wherever this particular community will exist and belong >> right that will always uh face that particular trend faster >> correct because this is how they this is where the action would be >> right so and that's what that's what I firmly believe in that >> the second part is u it's very difficult to predict a trend in this particular space because there's no one cohesive uh forum >> that talks about this at the at the national or a global level. Got it.

There are UN bodies that they do, right? But they form uh whether it is the SDG goal or the Paris agreement to everything else or the COP uh conference that keeps on happening every year. >> Right. >> Right. That is driven by an agenda. >> Right. >> Right. But that is not still bringing the world together. >> Right. >> To ensure that everyone starts thinking on those aspects of sustainability in one go, right? And I feel every country will have to take that step individually

>> because anything to do with climate action is a global impact but at the same time it also has a massively deeprooted impact in your own uh in your own locality or in your own geography in some manner. So if like for example in in India if government says to create a better awareness of ground level realities >> and community service or climate action engagement >> if government mandates that everyone who is getting into a job >> has to first 6 months along with the job or outside

>> needs to work with an NGO in this particular space >> right the way there are a lot of countries where you where uh armed forces service or any other uh uh military service is important >> right >> similarly if that can be done all right automatically a lot of things will go into the sustainable >> makes a lot of sense again policy level changes are >> policy level changes are imminent I don't think we can do anything without

that uh because land laws are state levels >> land laws your protection of natural uh resources is at the at the central level mostly right but usage is again at the state level um there are there are national parks >> and there are wildlife sanctuaries and there are other protected lands there are mangros >> if all these things have to come under one umbrella >> right >> like national highways >> true

>> right because it's a national treasure because one forest impacts that geography and that geography has an implication to the water levels and everything else that affects another state so it cannot be the state subject it has to be a national level walk >> makes a lot of sense >> so these some of these policy level changes will have to come at the from the top and it has to go beyond the political will in some manner. >> Got it. Makes a lot of sense and thank you so much for sharing that perspective. Uh just one last thing I I

have so many more questions but one last thing on this is can you tell the the audience who are listening to us right now listening to you specifically how easy or difficult is for them to join the community because I know a lot of people out there who want to be a part of the community how do they go ahead how do they join how do they collaborate >> so it's as simple as um joining any other forum today >> right you'll have to just be there see who all you and work and collaborate with. >> Right.

>> All right. Uh figure out your very very basic requirements of being in nature in some manner. >> Right. >> Uh we run a lot of programs ourselves. There are a lot of our partner companies which runs a lot of programs. Just be in nature and ju just make a choice on a daily basis or a weekly basis that you'll spend an hour in one or the other trail or a track or a trek or or uh something to do with um knowing nature better. >> Right. >> Right. And uh and you know as simple as

making a holiday choice rather than going into a city or a or any other concrete jungle just figure out a real jungle >> for your holiday. >> No that makes a lot of sense. So for people who are listening to us right now >> Ahmed has very uh you know put it out in a very very interesting way. If you just want to connect with nature, it doesn't really matter the amount of degree at which you are already connecting with nature. But if you are interested in connecting with nature, go to V naturalist because I think that is that

is what you've said that it's a varied degree of people who can be associated. Right. So >> and just one thing that I like to add is that and this is something that I've uh you know it's everyone knows but we don't think on those lines that whatever you love you start protecting. >> Right. >> Right. And that's why you called mother nature. >> It's all correlated. So you start loving nature, you'll start protecting and thinking about it. >> Makes a lot of sense

>> that when you go out and you see, oh there's a plastic lying in uh in a jungle and there's a heap of some dirt and garbage and over there there are a lot of birds and small animals getting collected and you realize, oh I mean is this what they they've been consuming or doing anything and suddenly you feel oh we should not be doing it. >> Exactly. or this plastic should not be there or there is something that can change this entire thought process and while we are bringing the communities together and say hey guys please don't do this

>> true >> then suddenly you'll realize and when you come back home >> you'll stop you'll have implement something or the other in your community in some form >> makes a lot of sense >> I think these are small small things which I have seen and making major changes in kids' life children have been the biggest proponent of that >> right >> right uh And I think uh there's there's a massive change that can be brought in if you take care of that learning and

awareness at that age. And that's why V naturalist is approved both at the Google and uh and Apple level at three plus age group. >> Oh fantastic. >> So we've ensured that every u you know child has a experience and can really figure out their nature journeys with this particular app and uh what we do over here. >> Really? No, that that's fantastic. No, I think that's a great information. I think uh living in tier one cities, we sometimes overlook a lot of these aspects and I think uh it's very

important to get this embedded in our children from a very young age. That's how you'd probably be able to bring that change. So, thank you so much for sharing that AIT. Uh one last uh segment of fun some fun questions. I wanted to uh you know ask you these questions out of my own intrigue and uh I wanted to understand and get some quick quick answers on these. Right. Uh first one uh Amit if you are not into finance business or media what else would you be doing? >> I'll be just shooting uh birds with my camera.

>> I thought so. I was thinking that >> sitting in a jungle and uh have some interesting u uh you know um story to be written at some point in time and then just shooting birds every now and then. >> Awesome. >> That's really really inspiring. >> Yeah. uh if I mean which which of these are more difficult uh tasks that you've executed in the past right the whole listing and d-listing of UTV or uh setting your first food outlet >> I think uh both were very different journeys with different set of people and both got me uh to learn so much

>> and implement those learnings in future so I think both are distinct uh but uh from an excitement perspective uh I'll still made uh the UTV journey far far more uh interesting. >> Okay. >> And full of uh full of so much of learning and then >> you know impact to the lives that we could do at that one time and the number of lives together >> right >> was uh was a different journey altogether. >> Fantastic. uh any piece of advice that

you hold very close to your heart that has been given to you by a mentor from the past could be Ronnie, could be Subhash Chandra or someone else uh that you would like to share. >> Um I don't I don't remember uh who gave me this advice but don't think too much. >> Okay. >> All right. Cool. Uh as an investor, you invested in a lot of different kind of companies, very diverse as well. Is there any startup that got away that you thought in hindsight that this is this was the one that I did want to do it but

you missed out on that? Uh since I don't regret any of these startups, I don't think uh no nothing comes to my mind right now honestly. >> Okay. >> Or probably I'm caught unaware. Um no, but I know that probably in a couple of cases I would have probably done differently. >> Mhm. But nothing comes to my mind where I feel any regret of losing out. >> Okay, that's cool. Uh what's your

uh best way to unwind after probably a long week? >> Um going as close to the nature as possible. >> Or probably yeah just spending time with the family. Um yeah, nothing more than that I think or planning a holiday. >> Okay. Nice. >> Planning a holiday may not be ending up with one, but yeah, at least planning. I love planning. >> Awesome. >> Driving also. So I drive a lot. >> So just planning a driving trip itself

or a road trip itself. >> So much of just planning it so much of joy. >> Okay. So what brings Ahmed Banka a lot of happiness? Is it the boardroom or is it the jungle? >> Both. >> Both. >> Yeah. a good boardroom with good intriguing uh and exciting conversations where you know there's an impact being created after an hour or two hours of conversation or even 15 minute of conversation >> if you believe that at the end of the

day we have created some impact it's very very uh uh satisfying >> right but jungle like absolutely yes >> jungle or anything to do with nature >> awesome thank you so much Ahmed for such candid perspective so much of gan so much of wisdom the pearls of wisdom like like they call it that way for a reason now thank you so much for sharing that with us uh I have a gift that we're going to give it to you we ced it to you it's by capek design uh there personalized stationary and gifting options for corporates so I'm going to

share that with you I ced it to over to your office or to your home >> thank you so >> thank you so much for coming here and sharing this with us >> thank you so much for having me here it was a great conversation and uh first time probably it was diverse conversation otherwise most of the conversations I've had in silos where either I'm talking about one aspect or the second >> but I think this was all encompassing so thank you for bringing it out you know as well

>> we will do it thank you so much >> thank you [Music] Feel [Music] free to share your perspectives through comments. Subscribe to the channel and do send us some suggestions as well. Thank you.