EP14: Reimagining Innovation in the world of everyday Finance ft. Vijay Rajagopal

you cannot take your credit history with you across the world. Why can't we facilitate something where if I need a credit card from a bank in the US, can I connect that bank to this bank and make this happen? >> But it's not something that most people understand as to what goes on behind the scene. >> When do you recall the last time you and I went for a branch? We don't have to go to a branch for anything now. Today, India is the number one country in digital payments in the world. How can we move from a cashdriven economy to as

much as possible a cashless economy? My competition is very high. Together, we can really solve for a lot of bigger challenges. >> I realized that okay, if I put my mind to something and if I were to really go with it with my heart, I can make anything happen. >> A lot of people take advantage of those narratives. >> You believe in something and you know the universe will support you in terms of people, situations, context. >> What is meditation's role in your life in your journey

>> on a day-to-day basis? I think it helps restore balance. You know, one learns to respond than react. What is the innovation that you're seeing that that's happening now in the current role as well? >> 5 years back the question of was really why cloud >> now the question is how and what apps are there on a person's phone tells a lot about the person's credit behavior. >> Credit card numbers are declining. Are we going to see this kind of impact globally as well? [Music]

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and retailers recover hidden dollars from overp payments and leakages. Docs Now's intelligent platform empowers businesses of all sizes to rapidly collect, manage, govern, and collaborate on the data front, transforming your documents and making sure there's an impact on the business bottom line, all in a secure and a single environment. Hello everyone. Welcome to yet another episode of the Innovators and Disruptors podcast. I'm your host Abhay Tandan and I'm glad to have you back here for a very interesting episode. This episode is going to experience or help you

experience the realm of financial services of payments and the whole world of fintech and how innovation in this space has brought in so much of frictionless uh life changes in the way we operate today and for that we have a amazing guest with us. Uh this person that that we have on this episode today is a fintech innovator. He's done so much in his life around the whole financial services, BFSI, payments, crossber and so many other areas within the whole fintech space and he's created so much of impact and I'm so happy to have Mr. Vijay Raj Gopal here today with

us. Vijay who he's also a dear friend he's he's a mentor someone I've looked up to for a while now and I'm glad that you and I have been able to get you here and Vijay by the way also heads uh the the GTM for BFSI financial services and fintech at AWS. So thank you so much Vijay for joining us today. >> Thank you so much Abai. It's such a pleasure to be here. Uh I think it's I've seen uh the way your podcast the innovators and disruptors has shaped up. Uh it's an absolute pleasure to be here and look forward to exchanging thoughts over the course of the next uh time that

we have together. >> Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm I'm superly excited Primace because I think I have seen a lot of things that we do today. example making payments etc by UPI or other platforms as well right that has that has made I mean my life has become so easy and I see it happening with millions and billions of people around us right but it's not something that most people understand as to what goes on behind the scenes right there's so much of innovation that has happened there was a time about 20 years ago two decades ago

>> we used to say that BFSI is a very difficult segment to crack through because there's so many regulations they still have there a lot of regulations But the innovation is not possible in BFS segment right in banks at large as well and today cut to today you know there's so much of ease of transaction things have become so frictionless for us consumers so I wanted to first talk to you about this before we go into any other specifics if you can just give us a perspective of the impact at scale what what does that look like right because there's so many different

technologies so many different areas can you provide a high level perspective on this >> absolutely ab like you said rightly uh banking, financial services, insurance, I think those have been the spaces where historically I mean if you look at um you know our past generations and so on even our parents and for that matter we're so used to going to the branch right like when when do you recall the last time you and I went for a branch we didn't we don't have to go to a branch for anything now I mean and that's a simple way to look at how things have

changed uh right like so the amount that technology has done over the last decade or so to transform how we fundamentally look at banking, savings, investment, credit. I think it's radically transformed a lot of things, right? Like to the extent that you know if today India is a digital superpower in payments today India is the number one country in digital payments in the world. >> Uh just on UPI we process around 25 billion transactions a month. >> Oh wow. >> Right. And that's a scale that we have

achieved which is uh more than 10 times what credit cards has achieved over more than two decades. Right. That's the scale that UPI has done just as an example and today it powers millions of small businesses you know in a almost zerocost frictionless seamless uh payments uh transfer right and that's incredible right and that's happened because so many things have converged together right so we have had a convergence of you know the mobile infrastructure uh people have been uh able to use their smartphones people have become very comfortable with

internet transactions >> right >> you've also had uh lot of inclusion right like lot of micro small enterprises have embraced this >> uh right and of course there have been things which have helped accelerate this change so for example covid le drove a lot of adoption towards digitization >> the government's push has been tremendous right to say that you know how can we move from a cashdriven economy to as much as possible a cashless economy right and that has really you know accelerated a lot of

things >> incredible infrastructure around the Aadhaar payment stack back the identity things that we have evolved how you know one is able to do KYC seamlessly I think all of those things have come together right and then today we are kind of reaping the benefits of multiple ecosystems coming together to make this happen right like that's a sum and substance but today if India is looked upon as a digital superpower uh by governments across the world by reserve banks across the world every country has an aspiration hey how can I implement a

UPI like system in my country if you have reached that place it's certainly a matter of pride. >> Amazing. That's so I'm so happy to hear that. Gina, the scale was just enormous. You know, the moment you said 25 billion transactions in a month >> and that is >> 10 times more than the overall credit card transactions of the last two years put together >> that just gives you the perspective on scale that has been brought in right and so many other aspects that you mentioned about all these areas and stakeholders

coming together, the infrastructure coming together to kind of create this kind of impact. It's beautiful and and India becoming the the number one speed you know country in the world to be you know at the top of this cutting edge tech is so fantastic and you know I'm very happy to hear that thank you so much now >> Vijay before we go further into this delve into this I have a lot of questions around this space as well but I want to take a step back and I want to cover the basics so so Vijay to get into the basics my first thing that I wanted

to check with you is I want to understand who you are today. Of course, a lot of people know you as a leader that you are today, but I wanted to understand how did you become that, right? So, you know, you have a very multifaceted career yourself, right? Multi-dimensional career, right? You did your engineering and bets you've been in fact a talker there, then you did your MBA as well from Amtabad and then you've been into product strategy and now financial services leadership roles as well over the years, right? any key formative experience across your early

years that you can point to and say that you know this was a very transformational point in my journey. >> Yeah. No sure. I think in one way I would say I'm fortunate to have been blessed with having taken multiple uh dimensions you know through my career having had the opportunity to do that having made those choices and and you know going through with those choices and being reasonably successful you know thanks to a lot of uh help and support from various uh people and mentors colleagues so many people you know who have kind of made this happen for me and

I think that has happened I would say if you were to kind of reflect on it Um and like you rightly said right like what I'm saying is if I look at it uh if I look back at my career so when I started on early it was into consulting >> uh then I moved to investment banking and from there to investing >> and then at that juncture I said okay uh can I look at something which is >> uh where I deep dive and and run a business right like which is when I went and took the startup route >> um and and after running a couple of successful ventures then looked at you

know scaled up enterprises you know like PayPal and that's what I'm running now as Amazon at at Amazon payments I was studying the payments business there and I lead the go to market here for AWS so I've been fortunate to have done these multiple roles um and if I were to look back I think one uh thing I think really made a difference and I would say um after my engineering uh right when I decided that okay I would uh I want to pursue my MBA and there was this deep desire to pursue to it from u what you know was and still uh recognized as among the best schools in the world. So

there was a deep desire that okay if I have to pursue my MBA and I have to get into Ammedabad. Uh it was um it was something it was very close to my heart and um >> and I think the uh the admit rates even today are around.1% or lesser in terms of number of people who take the exam and who make it. uh but that uh milestone of and it involved a lot of dedication, focus, discipline which until then uh you know I was also evolving as an individual and uh just kind of you know sailing through that and making that happen was a pivotal

moment in my life right because I realized that okay if I put my mind to something uh and if I were to really go with it with my heart I can make anything happen. I think that quiet confidence that instilled right then right even before uh you know I started my uh career I think that really helped at multiple stages of my life because I realized that okay at different points of time okay if I'm making a different choice more evolved choice a choice which even seems challenging um I just need to believe in me that okay whatever challenges could come up I will have the

ability to kind of get through right get through with myself uh you know get through with the support of others is believe that things will work out. I think that's what that instant >> that is that is >> so so I think that was if I were to look back as sweep job says right like you can only join dots while looking back uh you know like you have to believe that the dots will connect somehow and to me you know when you mention this formative experience I think that was really a pivotal moment you know when I when I got through that B school and those two

years you know were among the best years of my life at IMA I think the I think just the sheer um uh you know the the effort the the willpower that kind of instilled in me and more importantly the belief I think that is what has helped me through over these years continues to help me I would say >> brilliant that's brilliant and I think uh that I I can partially relate to that as well >> uh you know because there have been pivotal moments in everyone's life right and I think that confidence that you get sometimes

>> and sometimes exposure in my case it was the case of exposure right when I came and joined SPJ >> I I didn't score a 99.9 percentile so I couldn't get into Ahmedabad But I scored a 98.5 or 98.7 percentile according to SPJ Mumbai >> amongst the 10 top schools in India as well. Yes. >> So at SPJ uh for me it was about the exposure that I suddenly got right because prior to that I felt that you know even in my engineering u you know I was one of the toppers >> and you know I was getting awards at a

national level >> so the exposure was limited to R&D in the engineering space and you know that was good but it's only in the business school that I realized that wow I mean my competition is very high >> but they're also my friends. Yes, >> there are liars in many ways and together we can really solve for a lot of bigger challenges, right? So, thank you for sharing that. I'm assuming in your B school you took finance as your majors, right? >> One of the majors. Yes, it was finance other was strategy.

>> Oh, nice. Very cool. Right. So, so that transitioned you to consulting initially a lot of strategy consulting as well and then you got into the investment side with ICICI, Aishkar and people capital as well. >> Can you talk to us a little bit about that journey as well? you know what was the whole investment journey like I know of you >> personally speaking as a investor in a lot of startups right but that's a very different side >> this formative years after school getting into strategy consulting and

then into investments and capital >> how how did that happen what was that journey like >> yeah yeah so I think when I first got into consulting it was more um so they I mean there used to be this joke in B school that if you're not sure what to get into just get into consulting don't think too much so because it this gives you that more time to kind of figure out what you want to do. So I ended up getting into consulting spent uh more than couple of years there uh and then I realized okay because I had taken finance and there was something which

had drawn to drawn uh uh that to me on campus I thought okay why don't why don't I give it a shot so uh so then I went into spend some time investment banking then I thought okay uh you know why don't I try actually investing rather than trying to just make transactions happen so even each of these you see the evolution as well right like so you get into something and then you say okay hey can I do this as And then the belief that okay fine yeah why not right okay let me let me do it so so that that's what bought into investing and I spent a good amount of

time in investing and I loved it right like so spent almost six years between uh a venture capital and private equity investing had the opportunity to be a director on five boards amazing experience right like so I think at that early years in my career what I got to see uh being part of a board working very closely with CXOs being able to influence uh decisions, core business decisions and so on were amazing. uh right and this was across a slew of businesses right tech enabled consumer uh industrial all of that right so phenomenal experience and I love that

right because I could actually see what things go into into making businesses scale >> right >> right and that I realized that oh I I I like this right like I like how you drive growth I like how you bring people together to drive growth I like how you rally people around a certain vision right and which is what I saw our uh uh the the the founders and and CXOs whom we were backing were doing, right? they were essentially rallying people to then in turn drive businesses and and I just just loved that you know so so that's

kind of what so that was one very interesting part of uh you know my journey uh right and like you said while I transitioned from that to the operating side and I did that also consciously because I said uh in some ways if you're in a car where an invest when you're an investor uh you are in the passenger seat right but when you are in a business you are actually the driver, >> right? So, so, so you know, if you were to think about it, I thought, okay, maybe it's time for me to move from the passenger seat to the driver's seat,

right? That's when I was one of the founding leaders at Zetita and that's how that journey started. My fintech operating uh journey as a business leader that's when that started uh but the but these kind of what led to it, right? Because I I I loved just being part of driving such growth and I thought okay let me let me do it directly. So that's kind of how it evolved. That's fantastic, right? Because a lot of those investment experiences and then you got into the operator role >> as a business leader. You went from Zita

to PayPal to Zolve and being an Amazon AWS now for for a few years too, right? And you've been able to transform so many different areas under financial services under BFSI you know over the years. >> Uh fantastic. But today you know with all these things >> all these roles that have played >> uh >> how do you recognize yourself? How do you you know >> what do you think about yourself? Are you a builder? Are you an investor? Are you an operator? Are you a business

leader? How do you describe yourself? >> Got it. I think um a combination but what has really been the crux of it is today I see myself as a very strong uh business leader who drives growth. >> Right. And again I think I've been blessed to have been part of 0ero to one environments, one to 10 environments and 10 to 100 environments. Right. Like so at Zeta and Zolve I did 0 to one uh at Amazon payments I did 1 to 10 and at AWS right now I'm doing 10 to 100. So I have been blessed to kind of have to have seen different faces uh right in in in some ways and I think that's how I see

myself you know as a business leader who is able to drive growth uh bring people together uh you know connect connect different ecosystems and really scale help businesses scale that's how I see myself >> right and I think that also stems from a fact that I'm aware that you know you've been meditating for more than decade now right >> what is that what is what has meditation what is meditation's role in your life in your journey can you talk to us a little bit about that as well >> absolutely I think it has been fairly

profound uh right and and the reason I say that is um like you like you just mentioned while I've been practicing it for more than 10 years uh I've also had the opportunity to teach guided meditation to groups of people over a period of time and I found that it has helped them as well uh right it it has really helped them I think fundamentally I think it helps restore balance on a day-to-day basis. I think it helps restore balance. You know, one learns to respond than react, >> right? I think, you know, it brings that element of being able to look at things,

stay sufficiently detached and then respond. Uh, right? Which is really helped me, you know, keep that balance. So, you know, because so many things happen, you know, across our personal lives, professional lives, with so many situations, so many people, etc. I just really helped me stay centered, stay humble, uh stay balanced and I think that that and and it is just and I keep telling uh to people you know who ask me it's just 15 minutes in a day. Everybody can do it. Everybody can do it. All right. It's just a matter of you know putting it on priority. All right. And

once you start doing it, you'll realize how much difference it makes. >> Right? Right? And you'll realize the level of calmness, the level of focus that you'll be able to bring to situations, especially in this world of 30 secondond reels, right? Like you know, and so much things capturing our attention. It's important to get back to what things can help us build our focus back. And I think meditation is the best tool I I believe that which is there out there. Uh it helps in so many different ways, right? And again, there are so many experts out there.

>> Uh I'm not an expert. I'm a practitioner but I've really found the benefits of that and that that's really what I wanted to share. >> No, that's fantastic. >> Yeah. >> U out loud any any out of curiosity any particular form of meditation that you practice? >> Uh it is very simple u uh you know it's it's it's something that I have um you know evolved and that's also something which I want to share. Uh it is n equal to one there are varied all kinds of techniques out there. M

>> one needs to find what works for oneself right like so you have to find something which resonates with you >> that's when you will stick to it >> right like so it is about just being experimenting a little bit finding out hey is this okay for me is this not okay for me is this working for me not working for me and then sticking to it so mine is very simple uh focus on breathing uh over a period of time I think it relaxes uh the body and the mind and then when thoughts move aside which it naturally will just bringing it back gently

um you know back to the breathing and that that's it and that automatically puts you in a deeper state what we call as the alpha state of the bra of the brain scientifically speaking and and that's good. Yes. >> Fantastic. So so amazing and I think u uh I've seen that in the family too. I've not been myself >> into deep meditation. I've had periods in life where I've done that and I've seen the benefits too. >> But uh I think I should get back into that discipline. Thank you so much for inspiring me as well on this.

>> U Vijay, you know the reason I asked you about meditation was also primopy because >> of your humility and how you've been able to talk about you know stitching together that balance and you know doing a bunch of very different things and creating value out of each of them. Uh but since we speak about innovation as well uh again there's been a lot of innovation in the journey that you've taken right uh in PayPal you even ran strategy and innovation incubation worked with a lot of startups there and you've been continuously doing that over

the years right >> be it neo banking be it uh you know a lot of other new technologies right out there today you know crossber payments as well >> lending as well uh >> which area among these was the most soul satisfying for you in terms of the impact that you've been able to create Mumbai. >> Got it. Yeah. So, uh there was one um when I u started this venture called Zolve, you know, along with a partner. So, there was one problem statement which is very interesting. Uh right and

I found that the when I tell you it'll seem so apparent that hey like how can this problem still exist but it existed and still exists in different forms and I'll tell you what I mean by that. Mhm. >> Um, today let's say you you travel across the world, right? Like you have your identity and let's say it's a passport. Uh, that passport works everywhere, right? Like the passport you can move across the world. >> Interestingly, that's not true with your credit history. >> Um, you cannot take your credit history with you across the world. Uh, right?

Like so if you go to a different country, >> you have to build it from scratch, right? Like because people do not know who Abbe or Vijay is. And so they'll you'll have to start from scratch. And that has multiple implications right if you are starting a credit history from scratch then uh your access to credit access to credit I mean cards uh that helping you in terms of multiple day-to-day means including renting a house taking insurance etc gets impacted right and this is a real problem >> true

>> uh generations gener generations of students who have gone let's say from India to the US have faced this problem >> right so they land there they have to start a fresh and they need a card they can't get a card etc etc Right. So we found this problem and I thought okay what's the best way to solve this? Uh uh right like if we truly believe that it's one world it has to be one world in every sense right like you know so so so and and like you you would when I said this you would have thought right oh yeah of course uh right like why should people have to kind of keep building it

every time. No, I had to I had to face the same problem when I went to France >> and I had to create a new bank account in BNP Paribas. So that became a big challenge for me to do that and then you start building that history out there, right? In new country completely agree and understand your point of view on this. >> Correct. Right. So then we said okay so then we thought okay now if this is an individual problem so let's say how corporates solved it right like so corporates also have gone abroad to expand their business they also need

lending lines >> they also need credit how have they solved it right and then we saw that okay over a period of time in the banking system uh something called a bank guarantee had emerged right so you have this letter of credit bank guarantee format where let's say if a corporate in India is setting up an arm in in the US or any other country for that matter uh the the banker which the corporate banks in India talks to a local bank there and the banks have a system of issuing bank guarantees to each other.

So this corporate has access to uh local funds let's say dollar funds and uh the bank that is willing to lend on the back of the guarantee that this bank gave right >> so so we thought okay why not replicate that at an individual level >> right >> like so I also bank with the banker here and the banker knows my history like all my deposits all of that out there with the bank possibly the bank has lent to me a few times and also you know knows that my credit history is good they know my scores you know my civil scores and

so on right Why can't we facilitate something where if I need a credit card from a bank in the US >> can I connect that bank to this bank and make this happen right this was the underlying thesis and and you know I would say that over a period of time we made it happen so so today you know when students even before even they land in the US >> the moment they get their admit they get a card here it's an unsecured card uh right they get an instant savings bank uh account which they can load money into. They get a card, they land there

and they they can start using the card the moment they land, right? Like so we solved this and it was very satisfying >> because it took a lot of work to again you know uh you know in terms of bringing banks together and having financial institutions talk to each other the amount of steps protocols processes it takes but we made it happen. >> You want to regulations as well because there's so many different countries. >> Exactly. Exactly. So which is why we first did it for the India US corridor because every country has its own

regulations. you're bang on right like so you cannot do a cookie cutter >> right so you cannot say okay I'll solve >> X to Y country so I can replicate no you have to solve it for every single corridor so but that was that innovation is very satisfying >> can you give us a number of how many students does it impact globally >> yeah so I think today uh so uh you know if you were to look at it every year right almost uh give or take three to five lakh students aail of this right and this is just the number of students who avail of this and you can think

about it this is three to five lakh students who had who have earlier would have had zero access to credit right >> right so so if you put a dollar value to it it'll run to millions of dollars that every year now that they'll be able to spend >> take borrow houses all of that right like so know it would it would runs into say tens of millions of dollars that every year now that you are making this happen >> and this is just with one corridor the moment you replicate with another corridor doubles and so on so

>> exactly there's a huge number there in fact for me This impact is so beautiful >> because of the fact that it targets the student segment right uh you know as a as a person who's been a professional for a while you know if I have to go to a new country I'm not too afraid right because one I have my India credit card I can swipe it I know I have cash reserves or I can you know if there's a issue can always tap into that students >> always have a problem about having cash reserves >> yes >> right so they face a lot more difficult

or difficulty in those periods I solve for that is a fantastic innovation. It's a fantastic fantastic impact story as well. Thank you so much uh for sharing that as well. Uh you know talking about impact stories and innovation uh there's a lot of work that you've done with startups as well you know with various corporates as well right enterprises uh can you give us a little bit of a perspective about how that has shaped up your thinking how has that solved for some of the problems as well? Yeah. Yeah. I I can definitely talk about you know when I joined Amazon payments right

I took over the merchants business um it was a fairly small business so that was this 1 to 10 journey that I spoke about um and I found that you know while uh you know we were impacting the small medium enterprises and so on but from our from the value that we could offer to our customers we could do a lot more right and the way I thought is okay if our customers a large portion of the customers uh are transacting say in medium medium to large enterprises, right? Let's say they're visiting a demart more than a a kirana shop, right? Like so so how do we make uh things

workable so that the customer finds value? So let's say you know the customer walks into a demart or even a local chain store right so where does he find value and how is it valuable for the merchant right to kind of get more business right so I think fundamentally two things had to be solved so the customer uh and because uh you know we were in a unique position as Amazon payments you know because while everybody else offered a UPI >> which is brilliant uh we offered our customers more in terms of payment methods you would know of this Amazon

pay balance which is our wallet which I think we were among the first to uh you know put out that wallet in the system in the Indian system. So so wallet is a product that we offered uh gift cards is something that we offered >> uh we have we had a co-brand credit card that we offer to our customers. So we thought how do you ensure that customers have the choice to use any of these instruments anywhere. Right. >> Right. So you know so how do you kind of make that happen? So there is customer value and from a merchant standpoint if you were to look at it what does a

merchant care about right merchant wants customer new customers >> right >> he wants customers to keep coming back >> and then when customers come back he wants them to transact more >> these are the three basic things that any merchant any enterprise wants >> so how do we solve for that right like and which is when I said >> we need to go go deeper into this mid to large enterprise segment that's a segment that you know we had we had not really gotten into by then said you know let's go deep into that segment let's

make sure that you know we put out products which uh merchants would love customers would love right and when you create a win-win like that then the business will automatically grow right so and I think that's something that again thanks to Amazon I've learned in terms of being customer obsessed >> right >> and see if you really put the customer first and put together something that they value the business will take care of itself >> right so it's not about putting the business first putting the product first

and then figuring out which customer to give it to. It's about really understanding the customer what they want. >> Different sets of customers here the customer was the end customer the merchant was also a customer right like so understanding what they want and then bringing it happen then magic really you know plays itself out. So, so once I arrived at that then I said okay yeah what was also happening if you see uh we had these QRS across the country right which were these sticker QRs which every kilana shop had

>> but these mid to enterprise mer merchants wanted something more >> right they wanted something where on if you've seen those pause devices they wanted something where you could generate a QR on the machine >> right like so you know and and and also because they said hey I have highly large systems I want every transaction to be recon reconciled right where every transaction the invoice has to manage uh has to match the payment transaction. So give me those kind of capabilities right which is when you know you know we said okay there is something called this

dynamic QR how can you make a dynamic QR happen in a pause machine >> banks had done that in in parts banks had done that but we said as a payment player how do you make that happen right >> and that is something that we uniquely brought to the market saying that we want to invest and grow this all right because this is something that plays to you know all these things you know it matches customer requirements it will help our merchants you know get more business and I'll cover that part soon. So let's bring this out, right? So how do we bring uh a dynamic UR into these

devices and for that I did a bunch of things. >> Uh first brought product and tech teams together to build it and we invested and made that happen. Secondly got the distribution right by striking a large partnership with Pine Labs right which was the largest offline player. It's about playing to strengths at Amazon you know we had a customer strengths pine labs had their merchants sense who kind of brought it together and very importantly right so like I told you what does a merchant care about? He cares about business. So we said we have

Amazon as a platform. Now do you want to come out and put coupons for our customers please? Right? Like so if you want you know if you want if you have nearby store and you know and geo targeting is possible. So let's say you know Abai frequents XYZ cafe let's say it's a Blue Tokai right you want to put out a coupon to Abai where you when he opens his Amazon app he collects the coupon and when he walks into a store you he automatically redeems it. >> Let's make that experience and customers loved it. Of course >> right like and the merchants loved it

because it meant that okay more customers are coming in right and customers are getting rewarded merchants getting more business and that's how I got the flywheel going >> right so uh uh you know had had a great team put together a lot of uh a very satisfying journey I think you know over a period of 4 years uh you know put together uh teams which kind of joined me in this vision and helped make it happen right >> grew the business almost 85 times uh since the time it started so very very satisfying uh journey uh over a over a

period of time and like I said right you feel content when you're able to drive value and it echoed back to my thing of you know I genuinely like like driving scale right so if you drive scale and growth and when things come together is very very satisfying uh right so you know so that was one you know a slightly longish answer to an innovation which happened but it's very close to my heart so I spent >> this is fantastic this was fantastic right because there's so many points that you touched upon about the whole 1 to 10 journey and how

that impact I mean you scale up >> sorry the whole 1 to 10 journey how that impact and scale up really gives so much of soul satisfaction right because you have really solved a fundamental problems for both types of customers be the merchants or the end consumers right the shoppers right and in each case there's been a lot of personalization that has come in >> yes >> there's a added revenue stream that has come in so it's a win-win for all the parties and that that I think that's what makes the whole uh you know the

whole experiment and the scale up more holistic more wholesome in nature >> that you know it's a win for everyone >> yes >> so thank you for sharing that right I don't think so a long answer I'm sure that you know you can speak about it for 2 hours straight >> yes thank you for sharing that this perspective but now you know you spoke about the 1 to 10 journey and the scale up right now there's now your current role involves you know already a scaled up environment right and you have to scale it up further yes

>> right uh you know you're heading GDM for financial services BF fintech Correct. >> Can you talk to us a little bit more about what's the innovation that's happening here? Because the world is changing very very fast. Like about 5 years back we were just talking about bringing everything to cloud. >> Yes. >> Today with AI being so so dynamic in nature, so volatile in nature, a lot of things are changing with that as well. >> Yeah. >> What what is the innovation that you're seeing that that's happening now in the

current role as well? >> Absolutely. I think like you rightly said um five years back the question of was really why cloud. Now the question is how >> right >> I want to go to cloud tell me how >> that's the uh answer that we are seeing from customers across the board across sectors right because >> I think there has been a realization that if businesses have to scale rapidly uh grow with agility um you know grow with their light level of security and so on the movement to cloud really

accelerates that journey I think there has been a profound realization thanks to numerous case studies of successes that have happened >> right so people have realized is that saying that you know the the older ways of sticking to say monolithic technologies or things that used to work in the past you know we need to change and and I think people have adopted uh to that change and that has happened >> right >> I think you know while that has happened I think some of the things that are uh you know are definitely important are

the one is the customer benefits that it drives right like so if I want to embrace any new technology being on the cloud helps me be more nimble >> right so Today if I have to adopt generative AI right or if I have to adopt the latest analytics tools >> right or if I have to drive machine learning in my company right all for the right business outcomes then being on the clouds almost become a musth have >> right you know else it just slows me down significantly right that's a realization that you know people have come to and that's something that uh

that that I have seen so and again uh since uh generative AI is really changing uh you know and impact racting so much over the last I would say 3 years or so people are willing to experiment more right so you hear a lot more PC's uh that people are willing to now right people understand that you know there is a failure rate associated with it >> but it's important to invest in it right now >> right so so that I I'm able to reap the benefits and the the areas in which it's impacting again a manifold

>> right >> you see it playing itself out in customer service you see it playing itself out in fraud deduction and and and and I'm talking fraud detection specifically in the financial services context but customer services across areas right so you see you know whether it is airlines hospitality retail financial services customer service and automating that a huge role that AI and generative AI are playing right >> marketing content I mean the kind of new content creative content that generative

is able to bring together it's amazing >> right the kind of experiences the hyperpersonaliz experiences that you can give to customers are truly revolutionary, right? True. And apart from really elevating the employee experience, right? Like because now let's say if you're a developer, you have tools to write code for you, >> right? >> So you can save the time uh to do more value added stuff, >> right? >> Right. Like so you can you know invest the time to do stuff which actually

needs the right level of a higher level of human intelligence and you know leave some of the basic stuff to these models which can help you do that. Right. So, so there it's impacting then it's employ impacting you know employee engagement onboarding all of the stuff right like so today uh when you're onboarding you don't really need a person to help you with your journey right you can go to tools those tools can embed themselves into uh you know the the the uh company databases they can fetch you the right amount of information >> give you options all of that right so

lot of things you know are improving and we are seeing that in financial services so for example we are seeing large companies companies are willing to adopt voice bots >> for collections. Y so you know let's say you know you have given out a bunch of credit cards you've given out a bunch of loans right you know you need to call the customer and end of the day you can break it down to a few options that the customer would have >> right >> and that has evolved so much you know we are seeing more and more companies

embracing the use of voice BS for calling collections facilitating the journey multilingual capability very >> I think some of the stuff is fairly transformational that's you know happening I mean I mean and and you know people say uh right sometimes You know for fun people say okay I'm going to give you a call you have to tell me whether it is a real person or a bot. Very true, very true. And and I must say in sometimes, you know, you can't make out, right? You can't really make out, you know, and but so that's the pace at which some of these

innovations are happening with cloud as the base infrastructure, right? So, and I think the way at least at AWS, we we tell our customers that we help you build some of these stuff, right? We help you, let's say, if you decided that you want to get onto this, let's say, generative AI stream, >> we have something called Sage Maker which let you start like this, right? you can just get onto it. We have everything built in for you to build on top of it. So you worry about your business outcomes, KPIs, what problems you want to solve. We'll take care of

the tech and that's the synergy that we help make happen. That's and that's my current role that I drive. >> Brilliant. That that's so amazing, right? And I think right >> at the edge of tech, right, of where where we are seeing the curve, right, go. That's so fantastic to be at uh in that environment and driving that change. It's fantastic. I think there's so many examples around uh you know seeing uh AI evolve today that you know we could probably speak for another couple of hours just on this to be honest I'm very passionate about it.

>> Yes I'm sure I'm sure I would would love to exchange thoughts another time with you >> for sure uh you know very very interesting to also understand a little bit about voice tech agents and uh you know one of the investments that I have made also is in a startup called sarti.ai I >> which is doing something similar right multilingual and contextualizing the conversation midway through itself. You know if someone as a you know data >> uh is not responding in a favorable way or an erratic way

>> then the tonality of the board changes midway through the conversation right to kind of enforce those terms >> uh which is something that I'd not seen happening about 3 years ago. Correct. >> So so a lot of changes happening in that segment as well. You know I do want to go back if you remember right at the beginning we spoke about the UPI transactions. Yes, >> since we're talking about a lot about impact right now, right? I do want to touch upon UPA. It's a very fascinating area that has transformed the country right now. It's transforming people

outside. You yourself mentioned 25 billion transactions a month. >> Yes. >> Right. Can you for the ease for the audience or the the consumers of the content, right? Can you help them by giving a bit of a perspective around what really happens Yes. >> behind every UPI transaction? Correct. Because we know that you know as a you know as one person to another if I have to transfer money I have to make a transaction happen I have to purchase or exchange goods or bought a goods whatever right the transaction can

happen immediately now there's UPI light as well right but what really goes on behind the scenes if you can give us a perspective that would be super helpful >> true essentially what's the science behind the magic if I had to put it right like so because for end customers it's like magic like I I scan click and I'm done so but that's become so easy absolutely absolutely So sure I'll I'll break it down to a certain extent. So like if let's say if you if you one were a user right so think of it as one linking one's bank account to an ID ID is similar to an email id right this is

called a UPI ID so that's the handle as they call it so it could be >> um let's say your name at xyz bank etc etc right and and so that that's the first step which happens so you've linked it >> so uh and again uh two kinds of payments are possible right I can transfer to you as an individual which is called P2P person to person or I can go to a merchant establishment and do a transaction to a the shopkeeper which is called a P2M person to merchant >> both are enabled >> so P2P again it's uh you know ultimately

there is a pipe which NPCI has created uh you know with uh so many participants having come together and NPCI itself is an umbrella organization backed by the some of the top banks in India today and so on so they created this infrastructure pipeline so where to say think of it like a national corridor or like a national highway of sorts you know in some ways and then you have so many of these state highways connecting to it and then the state highways in turn branch out into uh you know city high city roads etc etc that's really how it works so there is a pipe uh like

how I said you put out an ID as a customer similarly the merchant also has an has an ID associated with it right uh the merchant ids are issued again by the banks there are some KYC norms etc associated which have all been laid down. So subject to passing the KYC the merchant also gets a handle essentially means that the bank account is linked to that identifier. >> So let's say now when a transaction actually happens which means that and transactions can happen in many ways. So like you know you know you can directly send money with a phone number which is

what you do if you were to pay another person at a merchant establishment as well. You can either scan a QR you can again send money with the phone number. There are multiple ways right and in future that will also evolve it'll get to more biometric modes etc etc there will be multiple ways to pay so when you do that essentially what is happening somewhere in the highway two touch points are connected >> right like so one ID here and other ID here is connected and imagine like a line starting between them where the amount gets transferred digitally at the

back end instantaneously zero cost >> right like so that is the kind of pipeline that's been that that's got set up so when this transaction happens you see an instant payment happened you you've got debited let's say the merchant account has got credited and that's it that's what happens now at the back end what happens the banks have to settle and the banks in turn I mean there is a system by which they work with NPC and then they settle it happens on a daily basis with each other etc etc and then there are things let's say if a transaction failures happen how it is

addressed there are set of protocols on that etc etc I can keep going >> but this is the basics of how it really works a lot of things come together to make this magic happen >> this is This is brilliant right because like you said right this this is science behind the magic because at the end of the day >> I know a lot of people that I know in my closed vicinity do not know what happens behind the scenes but this is so powerful for us today right >> in fact it's so powerful today that you know multiple countries across the globe

are now wanting to tap into this mechanism could you also shed some light on that as well >> absolutely so in some sense I would say if you look at a picss in Brazil or if you look at a pay now in Singapore they have largely been modeled on UPI. The interesting thing they're not zero cost yet right you know while we have a zero MDR structure and to be really accurate there is cost in the UPI system today which is boned by the banks. So it is not zero cost for everybody but it's zero cost for the user and the merchant right to be really accurate and that

cost by the banks that is also a subsidy which the government helps in so that the banks are able to absorb that and invest in the infrastructure and so on that's how it works but the closest parallels are picks and pay now and there are more um examples of more countries wanting to do that like I mentioned more reserve banks across the world reaching out to uh our RBI saying that okay can you support us in facilitating some of is uh you know between India and Singapore there are there is a arrangement where we could use UPI in Singapore with certain uh

conditions etc. So I think more and more of that will continue to happen. >> Fantastic. And you've also mentioned uh that you know >> uh in one of your earlier posts and podcasts as well that you know uh credit card numbers are declining you know when when when you look at UPI transactions coming in right becoming much more powerful. uh is this a segment that you see seeing only in India or do you think this is this is going to change across the globe? I say this because anyways in India as against uh I mean credit card penetration was not very high from the

beginning. Yeah, it has increased over the years. Yes, >> but uh UPI has been a game changer all together. Are we going to see this kind of impact globally as well? >> So it's an interesting question and I'll slice it in multiple parts right so even if you look at India while absolute credit card volumes and spends have been growing >> the share has been declined right because the payment transactions share has been going on the UPI side. So that is what has happened. But the beauty of the Indian market is that because the

overall pie has been expanding. Exactly. See the credit card volumes and value have continued to grow right I mean that that's one sense it's it's amazing the the market that we live in right like where there is growth for every possible >> instrument and segment and so on. So so my uh belief is that credit cards will be there right because they provide a certain set of advantages rewards etc which are relevant for a certain customer segment. So it's not going to go away especially if you see a slew of cobrand credit cards where it more ties to user behavior right so let's say if

you're a more travel person a travel credit card can benefit you more if let's say I'm a more dining person a dining related credit card could benefit me more etc etc so those pockets will be there >> so rewards and loyalty link to each kind of credit card would really be helpful >> exactly right so those things are there plus the add-on benefits lounge access etc etc so there is value >> there is value and and it'll continue to be there. No, I think globally I mean it's interesting right like because so if you look at a market like the US

historically been a credit card driven market continues to be so um all right largely a credit card driven market because that's the way the systems have evolved >> and if you look at how players like Apple Pay have embraced it now with NFC you can just tap your phone and pay with your credit card which is embedded in the phone right so those markets are adopting to that so uh now having said that the need for instant real time lowc cost payments is very real >> right so everywhere you know people are trying to figure out how do I make that

happen while credit card systems are there >> right so which is why you know you have options like zel and so on coming you have lot of wallet players you know coming in etc you know who say that okay hey if you have my xyz wallet I also have an xyz wallet that is instantaneous so maybe why don't you start with that >> right >> all right so those things will evolve but I think my honest sense is because Today financial systems are siloed right so no individual country system really talks to another country system or is

interoperable it's going that's going to be a journey >> before we get there so until that time each country will figure out what's best for itself right so if you look at a country like Brazil they figured that hey pix works >> right and if you look at their uh the the market share which pix has been gaining it's been increasing continuously >> if you look at different markets again some more evolved markets like Australia a pay later option like afterpay has worked

>> right like so I think every market will figure itself out based on what the customer segment wants some customer segments by default are more creditcentric right so the one of the reasons why in US the credit card were always high is because they are a credit uh I mean you can say affinity for credit is very high >> right >> uh right so but it's not so in other markets and so on so I think it's it this this uh thing will happen where every market will figure itself out. We have a lot uh to also evolve to. When I

mean uh that I mean how we evolve in in in credit >> right like while we have evolved in instant payments and we have reached a certain stage how do we evolve in terms of credit uh you know to make it really seamless uh paperless uh journeys you know how do you make it more effective because even today the credit penetration in India is very less very true >> right whereas the need for credit is very high right and that's a real problem that I think will and that's a a real thing that we will take possibly

another decade to solve before we say okay we have addressed it to a reasonable extent and that's really what I feel that you know like every market will figure itself out uh you know based on customer needs and and that's truly how it'll evolve >> no that's fantastic right in fact I I I've started to see this uh change a little bit on the insurance side over the last two three years where now you have computer vision based solutions you know if you have to pro I mean you know claim against theft for example while your claim

>> uh then it becomes as Easy as recording a 2 minutes video describing the whole situation. >> Yeah. >> And the video using retina scanner also is able to assess >> yes >> if you are at 99% accuracy of telling the truth. And if you are telling the truth hypothetically I'm at the airport and I've >> I left my bag on the chair next to me and someone flicked that >> and I'm just narrating this whole incident out and the software the algo

is able to suggest at a 99% accuracy that Abundan was telling the truth. Correct. then the uh the claim is processed and in 15 minutes it hits your account or 1 hour it hits your account or something like that which is very very fast paperless etc. So I think this is going to pick up but I think the fundamental problem that at least I am aware of and you as the experts you can guide us as well is that you know our files financial files at large in the country is very thin. Yes. >> Right. On individuals >> which is where at one point in time

China also has been having the same issue and they have spoken about uh a social uh rating mechanism. >> Yeah. >> Right. where people around me will rate a tundan >> for the integrity that I may have >> on various parameters of course which will mean that you know then someone can loan me money or not right my lending profile my financial profile will increase accordingly with those data points >> is that something that you're seeing in India as well

>> yeah it's very interesting you brought up in fact two things related to that right first to your point in terms of almost instant claims processing on insurance >> exactly that's a Northstar right and that's what you know people are looking to get to there a lot of AI tools that also helping people in trying to get there so that's a very important use case that you mentioned right so it's very true >> the point about social scoring and so on right ultimately what does it come down to it come down to alternate ways of

assessing my credit >> right >> right like so and and that is also a journey that people have started embarking on today if you look at the parameters on which one is assessed as an individual it could be for a simple loan on unsecured secured whatever the number of parameters have enlarged right why because banks and VUC have realized that with my these alternate parameters I can credit decision faster >> if I can credit decision faster I can give the loan to you faster right >> so it enables the flywheel so you get

the credit faster and when I say you it could be an individual it could be an enterprise it could be anything right so then when the flywheel happens then it the virtual cycle really plays itself out >> so it's very important right and interestingly I think one of the uh startup startups that I mentored and invested in a few years back. His name is Vizzy. They got sold to M2P. Uh they started this thing of how do I help banks with building alternate uh parameters for credit decisioning. >> Right.

>> Right. Which is very important uh you know and they saw the need for that in the market uh you know and and and and they've been really helping banks and banks have also moved quite a bit on the journey. Right? We look at banks and if you especially if you look at the new age fintech/NBFCs right like the ones who are trying to lend faster they have adopted this even more right because if you're looking at digital journeys you need that many more data points right and which means that does it mean scraping your publicly available LinkedIn profile possibly

scraping your publicly available Insta profile possibly right because you get hooks or even very simple right like things that are there on the mobile phone I've known uh fintex tell me that the the number of apps and what apps are there on a person's phone tells a lot about the person's credit behavior. >> Oh wow. >> Right. Like so let's say if there are a lot of gaming apps um uh you know etc that means a certain thing. If there are a lot of let's say gambling apps it means certain thing etc etc right like so you know so so I think we are

evolving that in that journey in terms of these alternate ways to uh score people. >> Fantastic. That's so amazing to hear. Yeah, in fact uh you know you spoke about a couple of investments that you have made right uh I I also also do get deeper into this aspect right of you as an investor right I we we have actually invested in one particular startup as well that I'm aware of maybe more >> yes more as well right so through the syndication model too >> uh but could you talk to us a little bit about the you know on what basis on what

parameters do you >> decide to invest in particular kind of founders >> yeah yeah and again uh you know I I'm really preaching to the core here I think you know you're you're really the experts. I've just picked up some of the basics. I just tried to follow the basics and see what I'm very humbled. >> So to me the basics are essentially first uh clearly the market opportunity right like that underscores everything else. Uh you can have phenomenal everything but if the market has a certain cap or even I would define it by

saying if your addressible market has a certain cap to it there is only so far you can grow. Uh right so that is the first thing. The second is in really in terms of what the USP is uh right like what um you know people bring to the table what is the unique way through which they are solving a problem or they're trying to address the customer need right again I really wear the hat of the customer uh you know because that's very important right like so ultimately the business has to be built customer backward there is just no other shortsh short way to build a sustainable

business right yes you you know any other way you can have maybe short-term success but if you really want long-term success I think the customer hat is super important. And third, definitely it comes down to some of the key things about the founder and the founding team, right? The experience, the expertise, uh what is the hunger level, right? The integrity, right? Like what are those things that they bring to bear, right? Like why why are they doing this? Uh right, like what is like you know really something that they are passionate about, right? I think these three things

if I were to say >> right >> the market opportunity the USP of what they're trying to solve why are they uniquely positioned if they get it right on multiple ways and thirdly the founder and the founding team right these essentially I call it the brilliant basics it's just that >> yeah I think the the subsequent subsets that you've spoken about uh that gives a very clear perspective about first principle and second order thinking that you you're you know embibing in this whole decision matrix right so thank you

so much for sharing that one Quick question on you know I want people specifically a lot of people who are aspiring who look up to you and who are aspiring to be leaders in the future as well. Yeah. >> What are some key traits that you look for or that you think that you know people should develop, right? There are certain inherent traits and there are certain developed traits, right? >> What are certain traits that you think uh people should develop to be strong leaders? And I also want you to touch upon intentionality as a concept that

you speak about right intentionality of doing specific work for not just for the sake of doing it but for meaning creating value, right? So you can just talk about these aspects as well. Yeah, I think uh and I'll talk about the second thing first which lead into the first part because >> see ultimately um I look at it like this right all of us are here um for a certain span of time right >> in the larger scheme of things if you look at it from a universe cosmos standpoint it's a spec >> or even smaller than that right I which

is why I I love going with my son to plan because it brings that awe in me to say that yes we are just this in the scheme of things. So at least let's make it valuable >> right like so so you know so so in so from that vantage point so if that is what it is >> and you're expending your you know your life's energy and time and so on might as well do it in something which one finds meaningful right which one finds value in and where one finds there is a certain amount of impact which comes into it right because it is not just a

trade-off of versus money that's at a very very basic level but if you go right to the other end of the spectrum It's like I'm investing my life's time and energy into something, right? Like so so and that is uh I mean that that has value in many ways, right? So so I have a choice. What do I invest my time and energy into, right? And that's and and for that I think people have to stay real to what really drives them. >> Makes sense, >> right? Because there will always be um uh you know noise around things that they see, but they have to be true to

what really ticks for them. Which is why I believe in this n equal to one. You have to find what resonates with you, right? It could be a passion. It could be something that one is good at which you want to do more. It could be something that has always motivated you that you want to continue doing. I think one needs to figure it out for oneself. >> To me, I think it has been a combination of a few things. One is that the impact and fintech can create like say technology and financial services coming together what it can create for millions and millions of people. I think that has

been a driving factor. Second is in terms of you know bringing people together to a common vision and then driving towards that vision seeing that growth which I spoke about. >> I think to me it was the intersection of these two things which have always kept me going >> right >> uh right like so and and and like I said it's it takes time to kind of figure it out. uh right the only thing is one needs to be authentic to oneself saying that hey >> this is what this is what my thing is

right and when when you get to that stick to it >> right >> uh stick to it right like you know they would because when you stick to it the everything else will follow naturally like whether it is money uh fame everything else will follow as a consequence not as an intention your intention should be okay how am I investing my life's work in something which I find meaningful and Yeah, right. Like ultimately it's important to enjoy uh also one is doing. It might not be possible 100% of the time but as much as

possible. Right? Like I think I think I think I think these things are important and and and and that's what I would you know when when people come to me and ask okay how do I figure things out? I say just go back to what has been the things that have led to some of these aha moments in your life right like which have been the moments where you've really been at your best where really you felt those goosebumps right they'll be few and far between but it's important to pay attention to them >> right and then see okay how can I do more of that right like so so then the

answers will come right and and and I I've really found that that has worked for me and I just wanted to share it >> no thank you so much for that right in fact >> underlying statement >> yeah Your life's energy should result in meaningful outcomes. Yes. >> And value creation. Yes. I think that that's what you're trying to say and that's a beautiful advice for a lot of people who are going to be listening to this. Right. Because we sometimes do not take our own lives very seriously. >> Yeah.

>> Right. Or the the limitation of our lives as well in that sense of we should >> factor in every energy moment that you know we are trying to spend towards actually creating those meaningful outcomes and value creation. >> Yeah. And want to add on one thing right the thing is when one is doing that it doesn't have to be serious stuff >> right >> like you know when you're genuinely enjoying something that you're doing when you're bringing people together and it is actually those small small things which actually make up a

>> a big large life right it's not those big things I found it's those you know it's this everyday small things those interactions those conversations you know those things you know when you're learning something from people when you're adding something to people and And I think there one important trait again which I would say is the the importance of being curious >> right >> uh right like when you're curious then you're naturally open to learn and in that learning if you can find joy then I think it it really sustains um okay so

so I think I think and that's a very important factor because it it it's not this hey I have to change the world serious stuff no >> like you can change the world in your own way right because every you are unique >> right and you bring a set of things to the world which nobody else can bring because nobody else has had the history of experiences that you've had right like you know it is truly unique and not just uh it's truly unique there is no other combination of DNA that has shaped you exactly right so so when you

appreciate the uniqueness and you truly believe in your self worth right and and you feel that okay >> by being me I can add something to the world >> then I think magic happens >> beautiful that's so beautiful and profound thank you so much for sharing Yeah. >> Uh with a couple of quick more questions. Uh what you know what are some of the key people alive or dead? You know if you had an opportunity to have dinner with them who would you like to meet?

>> So um I've I've respected a lot of leaders over a period of time. In fact once I've had the opportunity to receive an award and have dinner with Sriatan Tata. uh it was a very very very memorable uh evening in my life. So if I were to recreate I would love to recreate a a dinner uh conversation with him. But I' I've respected a lot of founders, lot of CEOs. Um I mean if you had to take names uh let's say right from Kunal Sha to MKkesh Bansil uh to a lot of CEOs whom I have a deep respect for the Tata group chairman Chandra Shakaran

uh you know to uh you know some of the world's leaders I mean you know right from Bzos to uh uh you know a lot of the leaders Satya uh of Microsoft I think I've I've uh definitely listened and learned and with uh some of the ones I've got an opportunity to interact as well. So there's been a lot of learning throughout the world. I can name a lot of people but these are just top of mind which which came to our mind now. >> Yeah. >> Fantastic. >> Any podcast a book that inspired you and

that you would like to suggest to the audience as well too. >> Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I think there is a book which has really really u changed and improvised how I look at things. It's a book called The Joy of Compounding by Gotham Bade. Uh amazing, amazing, right? Just the philosophy of compounding. While I had known it, um I think the book helped me really go deep in terms of saying how compounding works in every aspect of our life, >> right? It could be in terms of health, fitness, work, relationships, money, success, in everywhere

compounding plays a role, right? And which is where this uh concept of daily compounding you know your daily habits uh the small small things that add up right were truly uh you know truly insightful for me and I definitely definitely recommend uh it's not just a book in terms of financial um uh wealth creation and so on. It's lot more holistic. Uh so I would definitely recommend that. >> Fantastic. I'm a great believer uh in fact that's what my WhatsApp status also says creating and compounding because I genuinely believe all of us are creators

we create our lives we create how things happen we intend and when we believe things happen and we compound right whether we do it consciously or unconsciously is a different matter but everything compounds so I'm a big believer in these two words >> fantastic uh Vijay what recharges you daily what is that one thing which which helps you bring that life energy back strong on a daily morning. >> Got it. Morning. Um so one definitely is meditation. Uh like I mentioned that's my uh daily uh recharge that that happens. Uh apart from that I find that

uh I find it's very important to pay attention to holistic wellness right like so um almost all the days I have a certain uh kind of physical fitness routine as well. It could be either hitting a CrossFit studio near my house or doing yoga whatever or running. Um kind of try to mix it up something which kind of gets my juices flowing. Um I find that it's a great way to u just take one's mind off from everything else and and do something which also and I think it also virtuous cycle I think because of I think because our I really feel that everything is correlated

>> whether it's body mind and soul however you know you look at it everything adds to everything else in a virtuous cycle right like so so my physical fitness enhances my meditation which in turn enhances you know uh my intellectual capability and so on and it's kind of all three interrelated lot of people lot of experts are out there this is just basics that you know I have picked up I've realized that it works for me but that is something which really works >> and then um what also I find you know from a uh from a very different lens u

also being a classical singer for many years now know and I've I've been learning under a master so a few times in a week um I take those classes I practice that kind of helps me go into a very different territory in terms of music. Uh you know either I'm practicing or I'm singing. So that leads me in a different zone altogether. Yeah. So >> these are the things. >> One last question. Thank you so much for sharing this far. The last question for you would be >> what is the future of financial services of fintech at large 5 years from now?

Any one thing that you think is going to be really different from what we are seeing today? Yeah, I think we are going to have financial experiences tailor made to one's requirements at the tip of our fingers. Wow. >> In every possible way. Every possible way. And I really mean that. Whether it is in investing, whether it is in terms of insuring ourselves, whether it is lending, whether it is trading, anything. Uh right, in every possible way is going to be at the tip of a fingertip. In fact, it might not even need your fingers. You could talk,

>> you could talk and it could happen through just conversational uh AI and because I really see so many things that are coming together to make those experiences happen, right? And uh definitely generative AI is you know leading the way in that lot of things are to be figured out but I'm sure we as a as a race we will figure it out right so if you were to take a 5 to 10 year horizon I think we'll get to a place where we will get the experience that we want from the provider we want at the time we want at the place we want at the cost that we want all of that will come

together yeah >> wow that's not going to be a super personaliz hyper personaliz I don't know there's going to be a new term for that but hyper hyper personaliz All right. So, thank you so much for sharing this. You know, we talk about a lot of these terms that, you know, lay men don't understand and you have explained a lot of these concepts so beautifully to us. Can you also help us understand if you had to explain the concept of UPI to a 5-year-old, how would you do that? >> Okay, that's interesting. Um, my son is

around that age, so let me try to see if I would explain it to him how I would do that. >> Sure. Um okay so his name is Satwick and then let's say he has another friend same age called Navia. Uh so and let's say you imagine they're playing shop and shop right so they're doing a mock game of one person buying and the other person selling. Uh so let's say in this case Navia is having a shop which sells bananas right like so like a toy bananas >> satic comes there he's trying to buy that banana and he wants to pay her

>> right >> uh so let's say it's he buys a couple of bananas for 10 bucks u then all satic has to do there's this magic called UPI where he just has to say hey UPI transfer 10 rupees from satic's piggy bank to Navia's piggy bank >> and then it happens right that's essentially what you does. >> Fantastic. No, thank you so much for sharing that again. Very very uh you know crisp and uh very effective for people to understand what really happens. >> Thank you so much Vijay. Uh you know the

response have been so articulate, so fantastic and it's so candid plus the humility that you have brought in right so I think people are going to just love this conversation and I on that note wanted to give you this. So sweet. Thank you so much. >> I'm by Copic Design >> which is into personalized corporate gifting. So they have sponsored this. So thank you so much for you know coming here sharing these perspectives. >> Thanks AB. I really enjoyed the conversation. I think brilliant the way you weaved it in. I think you you made

it flow so seamlessly. Thank you so much. Uh you know continue to you know look forward to many such conversations with you. Uh right and uh good good luck for this podcast to go to higher and higher levels. I think you've been doing an amazing job bringing a lot of different people from different walks of life together. So, best wishes uh you know on that as well. >> Thank you. Thank you so much. I can't wait for getting this episode out. I think the you know the audience is going to love this. It's been a super amazing conversation. A lot of learnings for me

and I'm sure a lot of learnings for them as well. >> Until then, signing off. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. Thank you so much. Feel [Music] free to share your perspectives through comments. Subscribe to the channel and do send us some suggestions as well. Thank you.